Fish Dying! Need help ASAP

[duc]

Chg'd from my 55 to a 125 and things are going south. Last night approx 20 hrs after the tank swap I lost a damsel and today within the hour my Flame Angel will probably be dead. The Salinity, PH, Amon, etc all ck out by me and by Randy at River City. The live rock, the sand, and the water was moved to the new tank. The damsel look pale white like he was covered in sediment (from the sand) and his eyes were cloudy after the x-fer, the Flame looks fine except he is heavy breathing and about ready to throw in the towel.
Any ideas would be appreciated and needed fast.
BTW all the other fish and inverts are eating and look to be OK.

[alexwolf]

I had the same thing happen to my mandarin during the switch. He got really pale and floated at the top. I kept the lights off, and he was better in 2 days.

[duc]

I had the same thing happen to my mandarin during the switch. He got really pale and floated at the top. I kept the lights off, and he was better in 2 days.
So turn my light off? It is worth a try seemed OK last night and looked decent this morning before the lights came on; it has been since then that he has started looking bad.

[alexwolf]

Really I think it was giving the fish a chance to calm down in his new environment. I lost one clown during the switch, hes just gone. Did you reuse the same water or do all new water?

[Instar]

If you move sand, remember that the sand under the rocks is very toxic. Sand from an established tank must be washed and recycled or the H2S and other products of anaerobic decomposition in low O2 places can kill fish, inverts and corals. If you smell it and or it kicks up a cloud when stirred, it needs washed clean and started out new with fresh cultures. Often moving kills 100% of the fish if the sand is not washed. In order to clean up from moving, run skimmer as full out as possible and a lot of activated carbon. Do a significant water change. Reducing lights will reduce the stress of the new environment. Add some Reef Vital DNA Professional. Laugh if you want to, do it anyway. That stuff will help detoxify the junk stirred up by the old sand move if its possible to do that. Remember, no matter what you try, it may not work. The only safe way is to hold all life in large totes while the washed sand settles in and you add bacteria to start it up again. That takes 24 hours min. For anyone planning a move, you can reseed your sand from your current sand by scouping off the top 1/4 to 1/2 inch of sand and rinsing in salt water. Then wash the under layers, put into clean sand into new tank, let settle and top off with live sand from your old tank. It should not stink. Smelling sweet like the bay at low tide is ok. Stirred sand releases all the nitrogen products of decomposition and precipitated heavy metals you have spent months or years pulling out of the water with the sand and rocks. Its very toxic. People with shallower beds, larger sand grain that is kept cleaner by stirrers account for the wide range of variation of success with moving old sand. Live rock should also be clean of sediment when putting into the new tank.

[DeletedAccount]

I would turn off the lights first.

What kind of oxygen exchange does your tank have? Dwarf angels seem to se especially oxygen needy. If there is no sump or surface agitation this may be an issue.

[duc]

Really I think it was giving the fish a chance to calm down in his new environment. I lost one clown during the switch, hes just gone. Did you reuse the same water or do all new water?
I used the 55 gallons and made up the rest, I made 150 gals and ran it for several days with live sand. Then I tested the water and Randy ck'd it, all was good so I swapped everything and the fish over.

[duc]

If you move sand, remember that the sand under the rocks is very toxic. Sand from an established tank must be washed and recycled or the H2S and other products of anaerobic decomposition in low O2 places can kill fish, inverts and corals. If you smell it and or it kicks up a cloud when stirred, it needs washed clean and started out new with fresh cultures. Often moving kills 100% of the fish if the sand is not washed. In order to clean up from moving, run skimmer as full out as possible and a lot of activated carbon. Do a significant water change. Reducing lights will reduce the stress of the new environment. Add some Reef Vital DNA Professional. Laugh if you want to, do it anyway. That stuff will help detoxify the junk stirred up by the old sand move if its possible to do that. Remember, no matter what you try, it may not work. The only safe way is to hold all life in large totes while the washed sand settles in and you add bacteria to start it up again. That takes 24 hours min. For anyone planning a move, you can reseed your sand from your current sand by scouping off the top 1/4 to 1/2 inch of sand and rinsing in salt water. Then wash the under layers, put into clean sand into new tank, let settle and top off with live sand from your old tank. It should not stink. Smelling sweet like the bay at low tide is ok. Stirred sand releases all the nitrogen products of decomposition and precipitated heavy metals you have spent months or years pulling out of the water with the sand and rocks. Its very toxic. People with shallower beds, larger sand grain that is kept cleaner by stirrers account for the wide range of variation of success with moving old sand. Live rock should also be clean of sediment when putting into the new tank.
Man that sucks, I never heard/read that I need to wash my old sand, which I didn't do. So now it has been over 24hrs and the tank is settled what should I do? I moved the rock to a clean water source before the move to the new tank but the sand was scooped up and moved only minutes before I moved the fish. My wife is adding carbon as I type and I don't have any of the DNA stuff you are referring to, I don't have any corals either does that matter?

[duc]

I would turn off the lights first.

What kind of oxygen exchange does your tank have? Dwarf angels seem to se especially oxygen needy. If there is no sump or surface agitation this may be an issue.
I have a 30gal sump with a Mag 9.5, I have so much agitation that my drains cant keep up so I added a valve to back off the pump pressure.

[Instar]

That sounds pretty good so long as you didn't add new live rocks. What Misti said too. Sump, skimmer, or at least a bio wheel for air? Enough circulation/ water moving? Since it really is new check Ammonia and Calcium at least daily. Seeing it would help us help you. Details and/or pictures? Did you move fish with nets? Acclimate to new water or just drop them in? Just taking stabs at it here as the exact details are not known.

[duc]

That sounds pretty good so long as you didn't add new live rocks. What Misti said too. Sump, skimmer, or at least a bio wheel for air? Enough circulation/ water moving? Since it really is new check Ammonia and Calcium at least daily. Seeing it would help us help you. Details and/or pictures? Did you move fish with nets? Acclimate to new water or just drop them in? Just taking stabs at it here as the exact details are not known.
I added a total of 14lbs of new rock which I rinsed in clean SW then added to the 55 for several hrs before I put them in clean SW again and added them to the 125. 30 gal sump, skimmer going full blast and I dropped my old bio wheels in the sump figuring it couldn't hurt. The sump is a oceanic with the bio chamber full of 12-16ga shotgun wadding. I will see if my wife can send me some pics to post. She just ck'd all the water conditions and all was perfect except the Nitrates were approx 10-15, not bad enough to hurt anything. All but one fish and invert was caught using a clear measuring cup except the dartfish which seems happy and healthy, eating like a horse. I setup the tanks side by side with the same temps, moved water between them for two days then when swap time came I scooped and dropped them in. I thought I needed to acclimate them but I didn't.

[Instar]

Since you don't have corals, that will help actually as they might have stressed out over the move. Carbon is your best bet now as are some water changes. Keep a watch on the NH3. If it starts to rise, you will need cultured sand thats clean and some bacteria cultures. Be sure of a source before you need it. A good source of live sand for such times is Aragalive. There will be those who scoff at that, but, it is really good stuff. I used to make something like that years ago to help me start new tanks. The DNA can be purchased on-line, but, its really too late for that now anyway. And its only effective best when there is a nitrogen cycle thats not all the way cycled or with new stressed fish. Otherwise it can have a reverse effect since you used the old sand so I am going to say its too dangerous for you to use in this case. Carbon and some water changes should pull you through this if the fish haven't gotten too much of the toxin dose at this point. Thats the best way to get rid of all the mess that got stirred in from moving the sand at the same time as the fish. There is no good way to measure how much came from that sand except by the percentage of fish that survive and live long, happy lives.

[Richard]

Just to re-emphasize what Instar pointed out. I consider the sand disposable when I move a tank. To reseed the new sandbed you can take the first 1/2 - 1" of the old sandbed. Put that sand flat container such as a cooler and cover it with no more than 1/2" of water (this allows O2 levels to stay high through diffusion).
Then you can just add new sand or rinse the rest of the old sand very well. I usually just get new sand and toss the old stuff. Guess it depends on what you have more of, money or time.

[Instar]

The new rock is going to cycle. How much comes of it depends on the kind of rock.

Since you moved water between 2 tanks for 2 days, acclimation should not be necessary.

[CD]

Welcome to MAAST, duc - and I'm so sorry to hear you are losing fish during your upgrade. I'm thinking that moving the fish right back into a newly disturbed DSB is the major cause of your problem. I found this on WWM...sorry there's so much info, but I think this is important:

halides. I transferred a DSB from the prior tank onto a layer of sugar sand within the new tank. Everything went well. Everything is doing well.
<Cool! Sounds like some serious lighting!>
Now, 1 month later, I am having high nutrients. I know this because of Cyanobacteria (red slime) in the sump/refugium and because of an explosion of majano anemones in the main display. The tank is not overloaded with fish and I am not overfeeding. The flow is 3000 gph (10x). The skimmer has been pulling cups of pure black water every day for a month now.
<Wow! Definitely a nutrient issue...>
When the DSB was moved, it was BLACK with nutrients. The discoloration settled in a couple of days while the fish/corals waited in large trash cans with air stones/heaters/powerheads. The water quality is now perfect, but there are obvious signs of nutrients.
<Well, excessive nutrients are indicative that your water quality is NOT perfect! Are you testing phosphate and nitrate?>
I have two questions about this:
1) Could the nutrients still be the result of the move of the DSB? It has been 1 month now and it is the only thing I can figure that it still causing the nutrients. Have others experienced something similar from transferring a substrate from one tank to another?
<It is quite possible that when the sandbed was disturbed, many of the nutrients that were bound up within were released en masse, with significant consequences>
How long can I expect this to go on for?
<Hard to say. A well established sandbed may have a very large amount of organic nutrients that can take some time to be assimilated or exported.>
2) It is suggested that only the top 1" of a DSB be stirred on a regular basis. However, looking at a 1 year old DSB from the old tank, there were a lot of nutrients built up, though my nitrates showed zero, the water quality was very good and the corals/fish thrived in the 125. This implies that maybe the entire DSB should have been stirred on some regular, infrequent basis, or is this normal for a DSB?
<I don't believe that a deep sand bed should be disturbed beyond the first 1/2" to 1". Nutrients are assimilated and processed within the sandbed, and, as you discovered, disturbing the deeper layers can have dire results>
Thanks, you have a wonderful website.
<You're quite welcome! I would advise that you continue aggressive nutrient export processes, such as working the protein skimmer, use of activated carbon and/or PolyFilter, and small, frequent changes with quality source water. You are now becoming an expert on the need NOT to disturb the deep sand bed! Actually, there is so much more to it than this overly-simplified explanation, so I strongly recommend that you pick up a copy of Anthony and Bob's "Reef Invertebrates", which has some outstanding, very up-to-date information on deep sand beds and sand bed processes. Regards, Scott F>


****I know this won't help much at this point, as the damage is already done, but maybe someone here can pipe in and advise what can be done at this point.

Wendy

[CD]

Oops...looks like Larry has already addressed this. (sorry, all these responses weren't here when I was looking this up)

Wendy

[ratboy]

Its possible that you had some dead pockets in your sand bed that contained H2S but you probably would have smelled a rotten egg smell if that was the case. I disagree that you should discard your sand bed when you move a tank. Ive run deep sand beds for about 6 years (jaubert plenums before that) in several different tanks and havent had any problems other than a slight dusting of algae a few weeks after. This goes away usually with the first water change or 2 after the move.

-Erik

[Polkster13]

Not much else can be done that hasn't already been said. The only other course of action (which is extreme) would be to try and capture the sick fish (shouldn't be too hard as they should be quite lethargic) and move them to a temporary holding tank until the main tank cycles. I would only do this with the most distressed fish and only if I thought it didn't have a chance to make it in the main tank.

I know the fish is already stressed and catching and moving to another tank will add stress. But the clean water with lights out and nothing to bother it may aid in its recovery. Also, if it does die, it won't contribute toxins to a tank that is already having issues with water quality (new live rock cycling).

Good luck and let us know how things turn out.

[duc]

Since you don't have corals, that will help actually as they might have stressed out over the move. Carbon is your best bet now as are some water changes. Keep a watch on the NH3. If it starts to rise, you will need cultured sand thats clean and some bacteria cultures. Be sure of a source before you need it. A good source of live sand for such times is Aragalive. There will be those who scoff at that, but, it is really good stuff. I used to make something like that years ago to help me start new tanks. The DNA can be purchased on-line, but, its really too late for that now anyway. And its only effective best when there is a nitrogen cycle thats not all the way cycled or with new stressed fish. Otherwise it can have a reverse effect since you used the old sand so I am going to say its too dangerous for you to use in this case. Carbon and some water changes should pull you through this if the fish haven't gotten too much of the toxin dose at this point. Thats the best way to get rid of all the mess that got stirred in from moving the sand at the same time as the fish. There is no good way to measure how much came from that sand except by the percentage of fish that survive and live long, happy lives.
I'll be keeping a close eye on everything and will post when I know/see anything new. Is one 4x8 bag of carbon enough or should I drop in another? Water has a slight odor but is not very strong so I have my fingers crossed. I added 40lbs of Aragalive to the new tank along with 200lbs of Southdown before I added my sand, rocks, etc. My flame was so healthy I never figured him for a victim but I didn't know about the other variables either. Thanks for all the help so far
Clif

[duc]

Just to re-emphasize what Instar pointed out. I consider the sand disposable when I move a tank. To reseed the new sandbed you can take the first 1/2 - 1" of the old sandbed. Put that sand flat container such as a cooler and cover it with no more than 1/2" of water (this allows O2 levels to stay high through diffusion).
Then you can just add new sand or rinse the rest of the old sand very well. I usually just get new sand and toss the old stuff. Guess it depends on what you have more of, money or time.
Thanks for the reply I guess I should have read/posted more before I made the move but after talking to several people and LFS I "thought" I had a clue.

[Polkster13]

The bad smell is your first clue that something isn't right. In other words, stuff is still dying and causing all kinds of nasties to accumlate in the water that your test kit won't find. If that is the case, I would seriously consider moving the sickest fish to a temporary home until the smell has gone away for at least 12 hours before reintroducing the fish. And then only if the fish are showing signs that they have fully recuporated. You will also need to aclimated them to the new water.

[duc]

Oops...looks like Larry has already addressed this. (sorry, all these responses weren't here when I was looking this up)

Wendy
Thanks Wendy I have been a lurker for a while and member only for a week or so. Been doing a lot of reading and even more oohing and awing at the tanks, great site. I actually planned on contacting you about fish sitting in July, I am going to be gone for 20-30 days and will be in need of someone who is fish savvy. Thanks for the info.

[duc]

Its possible that you had some dead pockets in your sand bed that contained H2S but you probably would have smelled a rotten egg smell if that was the case. I disagree that you should discard your sand bed when you move a tank. Ive run deep sand beds for about 6 years (jaubert plenums before that) in several different tanks and havent had any problems other than a slight dusting of algae a few weeks after. This goes away usually with the first water change or 2 after the move.

-Erik
That is what I had heard so that is why I "assumed" I was OK, guess time will tell.

[duc]

Not much else can be done that hasn't already been said. The only other course of action (which is extreme) would be to try and capture the sick fish (shouldn't be too hard as they should be quite lethargic) and move them to a temporary holding tank until the main tank cycles. I would only do this with the most distressed fish and only if I thought it didn't have a chance to make it in the main tank.

I know the fish is already stressed and catching and moving to another tank will add stress. But the clean water with lights out and nothing to bother it may aid in its recovery. Also, if it does die, it won't contribute toxins to a tank that is already having issues with water quality (new live rock cycling).

Good luck and let us know how things turn out.
I could move him to the old 55 or into a bucket but I do not have the extra parts to keep the temp right, I do have a powerhead and the old Penguin 400. I would have to make fresh water up for the move and wouldn't that be hard as heck on a sick fish to try and deal with?

[Polkster13]

As long as the tempurture is very close to what is in the tank, it would be worth the try. Yes, it is going to hard on him but I don't think it will be as hard on him if he stays in a tank that is giving off toxins from the curing live rock. It's your call, but if it was me, I would move them and do what I could. You could also put a piece of the original LR that came from the 55 in the temporary holding tank. That will help cycle any fish watse until you can move the fish back. We are talking less than a week (hopefully) so I don't think you need anything eloborate. This is just another reason to have a small quarantine tank cycled and available for events such as these. I would highly recommend getting a 20 or 29 gallon tank and setting it up as a quarantine tank and all new additions must be placed here at least one week before introduction into the main display tank.

Good luck.

[CD]

Thanks for the info.


Sure - always willing to help! I feel bad that you lost fish in the process though. MAAST is just an awesome site to come for help, and there are many people here with lots of experience that are always willing to give advise. A word of warning though (as far as getting advise from LFS employees) - there are quite a few that are knowledgable, but you will find there are even more that don't have a clue...just be very careful in choosing who you get advise from. ;) I'd say it's a much better idea to post your questions here...and please, don't ever be embarrased about asking what you perceive to be a silly question. No question is silly, and we've all been there.

I agree with Polkster about setting up the QT. I just recently took mine down to do a serious cleaning b/c of the formalin I was using in there to cure a sick fish, but I plan on getting it going again today or tomorrow. It is invaluable, for not only new fish additions, but you can also use it for corals and LR (never know what may be hitchhiking in on LR!).

As far as the fish sitting - I'm presuming you live in Austin? PM me, and we can meet up and talk before you leave town...even sooner, if you would like! (always happy to meet a fellow reefer)

Wendy

[duc]

Wife says his belly looks white, like all his color has been washed out.
Any ideas on that?

[Polkster13]

That is a typical sign of stress.

[Instar]

A bag of carbon floating around somewhere is not effective. You need a high grade of carbon packed into a canister type thing where the water from a pump such as a mag 5 will force the water to actually flow all through the carbon in the canister. At least one pound of carbon. Don't know how much is in those bags. 2 pounds would be better. I might change it to fresh carbon in a few days if it was me doing that as well.

In regard to moving a deep sand bed; I'm not necessarily inclinded to discard it myself either, if its high quality sand. But, you have to clean it up a lot. I did buy an old sand bed last year and finally discarded it because it was so nasty I couldn't get it clean and the sand was not good quality.

[duc]

I agree with Polkster about setting up the QT. I just recently took mine down to do a serious cleaning b/c of the formalin I was using in there to cure a sick fish, but I plan on getting it going again today or tomorrow. It is invaluable, for not only new fish additions, but you can also use it for corals and LR (never know what may be hitchhiking in on LR!).

As far as the fish sitting - I'm presuming you live in Austin? PM me, and we can meet up and talk before you leave town...even sooner, if you would like! (always happy to meet a fellow reefer)

Wendy
Question I have about a QT is what do you put in it? Just water and a heater? Filter? Powerhead? The more stuff the better? Do I want sand in it? Does the water need to be chg'd in it regularly or is it OK indefinitely since there is no waste being produced.
I am in Buda. Is that out of your range? Kind of a haul from Cedar Park.

[duc]

That is a typical sign of stress.
She is preparing some water as I type to try and move him to. Since everyone else seems happy and are eating fine should I be concerned about them or just keep an eye on them?

[CD]

Question I have about a QT is what do you put in it? Just water and a heater? Filter? Powerhead? The more stuff the better? Do I want sand in it? Does the water need to be chg'd in it regularly or is it OK indefinitely since there is no waste being produced.
I am in Buda. Is that out of your range? Kind of a haul from Cedar Park


As far as the QT - yes...water, heater, filtration, powerhead are all ok, but NIX on the sand. A QT is more or less a hospital tank not a permanent residence, and on occasions you will have to treat sick fish, so a SB is not a good idea. I keep mine bare with the exception of a few pieces of *CLEAN* PVC pipe so the QTd fish have a place to hide (aid in their comfort). If there is nothing in the tank, I don't see a reason to do water changes, but you will need to make sure you top off evap. with fresh RO water. Once there is a fish in there producing waste (even one), I find it best to do small weekly water changes. I also keep a separate set of "tools" (IE nets and the like) for the QT, as I wouldn't want to use a net or anything else in my display that has been in contact with medications or sick fish.

INRE - Buda...hmmm...well, that is kind of a haul, especially over a 20 to 30 day time frame. I don't live in Cedar Park though...we live in the Wells Branch area - slightly closer, but not by much. We can talk more about this, as July is some time away. Definitely would have to consult with the hubby, as I would be using his car. We'll talk more about that later...cool?

Wendy

[Instar]

QT is not necessarily for medication, overmedication, hyposalinity or any such thing. There should be lots of waste being produced in a successful QT because the whole point to it is to bring a new arrival to good health and vigor. That may take food, selcon, vitamins and more than the normal offerings of food and smelly garlic extreme to get them to take it and gain back some weight lost during shipping. I would run it with all sorts of things for hiding places, to include a shallow sand bottom covering or deep enough to suit a wrasse if that was the case. Since its QT and not display, it can be changed to lesser rocks for hiding to save the live rocks for when meds and extremes are or are not needed and to accomodate different new arrival types. Micro hermits and snails to keep it clean can also be removed when needed. If sand was an issue for one thing at the time or a med, then it can be siphoned out and kept in a holding tank till needed again. So that would be a QT with a sump then, I guess and maybe even 2 different systems, one for inverts and one just for fish that became ill during the QT tank time. That would be my choice. Historically QT's are not as large as they need to be for the fish, so you can change the water often to extract nutrients and freshen the water.

[duc]

Just got the call that the fight is over, dead.
The rest are eating and look good, I have a 4x8 bag of carbon in the sump attached to the pump so that all the water leaving the tank has to be pulled through it and a Penguin 400 hanging on the side of the tank with fresh carbon in it. Any other words of wisdom I should know?

Wendy that is fine we can chat about it later, thanks for the help. I assume the tank can be stored and then setup up when needed, I don't have the space to have a tank full of water running 24x7.

[duc]

Here thay are, not the greatest pics.

[Instar]

We are talking about 2 different things in regard to QT here. A good quarenteen (QT) method/system/tank is to have a tank that a new arrival can recover from moving and shipping in and gain health back. During this time it gets used to artificial foods and life in a captive system with lights that come on suddenly and click off to darkness with a snap. Its time for settling and figuring out how to eat and how to survive on a twice daily heavy feeding as opposed to life in the ocean where it ate a little all day long. This is a time when cleaner shrimp, neon gobies, ultriviolet sterilizer, etc. help rid it of unwanted hichhikers. (Even captive bred fish are normally fed more than once a day to grow them as fast as possible to market size and sometimes need a little time to get used to your feeding schedule of maybe once a day? Hopefully at least that often.)

A hospital or medication tank is one for dipping; last ditch efforts when the QT was not successful and the fish became ill with some dread disease. That tank is a medication tank. Bacteria will be disfunctional in there and ammonia and nitrogen will rule and weaken the fish. A hospital medication tank is NOT a QT tank or period for gaining weight. Its only and simply for adding something that will kill a disease to the water at a high level and hopefully not kill the fish. This in no way shape or form is or can be considered QT.

[Instar]

Have you had the buda in a tank before now? Plastic plants? Can you grow some macro in that sump? It will help you out a ton so far as health of inhabitants go. Overall it looks like a system that can work out and come out real nice. Startups like this as you've found out, can be hard on things. Does kitty scare the fish? Mine has one special blenny that he plays with constantly.

[duc]

Have you had the buda in a tank before now? Plastic plants? Can you grow some macro in that sump? It will help you out a ton so far as health of inhabitants go. Overall it looks like a system that can work out and come out real nice. Startups like this as you've found out, can be hard on things. Does kitty scare the fish? Mine has one special blenny that he plays with constantly.
First thanks for all the QT info, that is good stuff.
The Buda has been in there since day one and has some decent growth (red/green), same goes for the plastic plants (except they don't have a lot of growth if any. I want to remove them but figured the fish needed them for hiding and the hermits/arrow/emerald crabs love to climb it. As for the macro, can I? That is my question back at cha? Would I need a light for the sump in order to grow it , BTW what exactly are we typing about? Is it a plant or a growth? I have some HiRock in bound and want 75-100lbs more of live rock but wanted to let everything settle before I made more BIG changes. That is when I planned on taking the plastic plants out.
Kitty:
Long story, years ago I had 3 tanks in my 1 bdrm apt but once I quit them I haven't considered/wanted a tank until the kitty. My wife and I are on the side of the road in Houston when this kitten approaches us and decides we would make a good home for it. Now don't need a tank and don't want a cat guy has both :-D So we take the kitten to my sisters in Houston while we go on a mini vacation and it freakin worships my sisters 10gal, sooooooo my wife says we need a tank for her and wala here I am. Fish don't mind her some don't even seem to notice her but she really digs them, I built a 8in ledge on both stands so she can lay and play.

[CD]

A hospital medication tank is NOT a QT tank or period for gaining weight.


Ohhh...Ok Larry, I see what you mean. What we have then is just a hospital tank. I know a QT is important, and I guess we've been very lucky so far by not doing QTs on our new arrivals unless they show signs of illness. Of course, in comparison to a lot of other folks on MAAST, we have a fairly small display tank at 75G, so needless to say, we don't have that many fish. Thanks for clarifying!

Wendy

[SaltyJim]

I don't have the space to have a tank full of water running 24x7.

Why don't you slide the sump to one side or the other, then you could put a 10-20 gal tank in the stand for QT. That way you DO have the space, and the QT is ready when you need it.

Sorry for your loss.

[duc]

Why don't you slide the sump to one side or the other, then you could put a 10-20 gal tank in the stand for QT. That way you DO have the space, and the QT is ready when you need it.

Sorry for your loss.
I can't honestly think as to why I did not put my sump on one side or the other but now you mention that is a good idea. I know there had to be a reason (probably temporary insanity) but I cant think of why so I will buy some more hose this week/weekend and knock that out.
Thanks for the smack back to reality.

Wait I remember why I didn't side it, once the sides are on it would be to hard to work on. We (wife and I) built this stand lower so she did not have to use a ladder or chair to get to the top of the tank (she's short) and by doing that we left very little room for sump maintenance. So it would be very difficult to work on the sump if it was sided instead of centered.

[SarahPSl]

Don't kick yourself too hard. I did the same thing with my old sand and lost one of my anemone's and came as close as you can get to killing the other (mouth wide open and no tentacles) I did water changes everyday for a week and added some Turbo start for added bacteria. My anemone amazingly survived and is doing well now.

[duc]

Don't kick yourself too hard. I did the same thing with my old sand and lost one of my anemone's and came as close as you can get to killing the other (mouth wide open and no tentacles) I did water changes everyday for a week and added some Turbo start for added bacteria. My anemone amazingly survived and is doing well now.
Thing is I can't figure why some died and some seem fine, bottom fish look/act healthy as ever same with all my inverts but two (seemingly) strong fish crash and burn. Oh well.....

[Andrew]

It's still possible the other animals are stressed even though they didn't die.

Marineland sells an excellant marine bacteria in a packet called-bio spira. If I was moving a sand bed, I'd definitely use it, along with testing water, having new water available for water changes etc. I am sorry to hear of your losses.

HTH

Andrew

[Instar]

Duc, Yes you can grow macro anywhere you can get to for maintenance and where you can put a strong shop type or pc light. Some people without algae consuming inverts and fish grow macro algae in their tanks. Its a plant, complex algae really. Not just slime, but some looks like eel grass, others like little runners of 2 to 6 inch feathers, some like a corkscrew sponge. They can be red or green "plants". They can also overgrow your tank rocks, so if you grow some in the tank you have to be careful to keep it pruned. It is very good at exporting nutrients put out by the reef life when you prune it like that and it contributes to the heath of the fish. Tangs eat it, so you can feed some to the algae eating type fish if you grow it in the sump. Algae eating fish like tangs will wipe it out in your main tank. If done in the sump, you have to keep it out of the pump intake area somehow. This is why many people have refugiums attached; for pods and for these macros to grow in.

[duc]

It's still possible the other animals are stressed even though they didn't die.

Marineland sells an excellant marine bacteria in a packet called-bio spira. If I was moving a sand bed, I'd definitely use it, along with testing water, having new water available for water changes etc. I am sorry to hear of your losses.

HTH

Andrew
So tonight at 10pm makes 4 days since the move and other than the previously mentioned fish everyone looks and acts healthy. Eating like pigs and going about there daily lives like nothing happened. Do you think I need to add something or just let things progress normally. Water tests daily and everything is good.

[duc]

Duc, Yes you can grow macro anywhere you can get to for maintenance and where you can put a strong shop type or pc light. Some people without algae consuming inverts and fish grow macro algae in their tanks. Its a plant, complex algae really. Not just slime, but some looks like eel grass, others like little runners of 2 to 6 inch feathers, some like a corkscrew sponge. They can be red or green "plants". They can also overgrow your tank rocks, so if you grow some in the tank you have to be careful to keep it pruned. It is very good at exporting nutrients put out by the reef life when you prune it like that and it contributes to the heath of the fish. Tangs eat it, so you can feed some to the algae eating type fish if you grow it in the sump. Algae eating fish like tangs will wipe it out in your main tank. If done in the sump, you have to keep it out of the pump intake area somehow. This is why many people have refugiums attached; for pods and for these macros to grow in.
Man I love this forum. So I see people with hang on fuges, got an opinion of those? My sump is pretty crowded so a small tank mixed in next to it or a hong on would be cool. I have seen some suction cup algae (that is what the tips looked like) that you grow in your tank that I was told needed to be groomed and if not careful could grow to be harmful and cover everything. For now or permanently does in growth macro work as well as anything else? Do you recommend a in tank macro?
Clif