Plumbing help

[Viet-Tin]

I attempted to do some plumbing on my tank and it isnt working to well. I have an overflow box rated for 1000gph and a mag12 pump at 5 feet from the dt. I was told to use 1" pvc piping for the return and so far it doesnt seem to be flowing out well and there seems to be a whole lot of micro bubbles. Can someone help me fix this?

[Viet-Tin]

heres a pic

[ratboy]

A few suggestions...
1) If your connections arent glued you are probably sucking air into the system that way. Glue or teflon tape (if threaded) all connections.
2) Thats alot of elbows youve got there.. Each 90 deg elbow kills your return flow. It may not look as clean but use flexible spa tubing and eliminate as many elbows as possible.

I ran a mag12 on my 90 with a SQWD and got pretty good flow out of the pump. It looks like you may be trying to run something else off that pump?? I dont thikn its enough juice for a return and a skimmer if thats what is going on...

HTH --Erik

[Viet-Tin]

I was trying to use some of the return to spill into fuge. Ill look into spa flex. I was thinking of having the overflow spill into sump and then have the other tube spill into fuge but then my pump is pumping too fast for my overflow.

[ratboy]

I dont think that will work. You are dumping most of your flow back into the sump and what goes up is bringing air with it. If your pump is too strong for the overflow you have 2 options. 1) throttle your pump down with a ball valve or 2) Split your return line into 3+ return pipes to reduce flow. I think this would be preferable since you dont waste any flow from the pump. Ive never had a tank that wasnt drilled so I cant believe these things cant handle that kind of flow but I suspect just removing the feed to the fuge may fix your problems.

[Viet-Tin]

ok. What can i use to feed my fuge?

[Viet-Tin]

I know some of the bubbles are coming from my plumbing cause theres a few leaks in them i need 2 patch up but wasnt sure if i should just in case theres something i needed to change.

[AlexKilpatrick]

I have always wondered something about the "bubble theory" If you have bubbles because of poor joints, why don't you get leaks? If air can get in, why doesn't water get out?

[Viet-Tin]

thats what i was thinking but then will i have enough water coming back for the return? My pump works a little too fast for the overflow but i kinda fixed the box and hopefully itll work better. Ill try it out and see what happens. I think the way my baffles are set up is what is causing the bubbles. The waterfall effect from having high baffles is creating tons of bubbles so i might take them out and shorten them.

[GaryP]

I like using tygon tubing whereever possible on the return side of the pump. I use the spa flex tubing on the overflow side. You can get both at Home Depot or Loews.
The Loews near my house has a better selection of Tygon than the Home Depot.

Gary

[Viet-Tin]

tygon tubing...hmm never heard of that before. ill be sure to check that out. Im thinking of using spa flex for the return so i dont get so much back pressure. right now with all that back pressure im only getting 822gph.

[GaryP]

Tygon tubing is the clear plastic tubing, like air hose tubing, but bigger.

It doesn't require any elbows, is bendible and therefore doesn't result in the pressure drop that is common in PVC with elbows or other fittings. Its also easier to tell when it needs to be cleaned since its transparent. Any piping can scale up, reducing the ID and resulting in back pressure and reduced flow in a tank that has been set up for a long time or run at high calcium/alkalinity levels. The pump and areas downstream are areas that are very suseptible to scaling because of the pressure change that takes place as it goes through the pump.
I just pinch the tygon occasionally, the scale breaks loose and I catch it in a fish net when it blows out the return nozzle.

Gary

[Viet-Tin]

is tygon tubing cheaper than spa flex?

[NaCl_H2O]

Are those sponge filters in your overflow box? They may be restricting the flow too much? Try taking them off and see how it works. If that does it, but is too noisy, you can instal dorso (sp?) standpipes.

Bubbles can com from lots of places - do a search on "Microbubbles" and you will finds lots of theories.

[Viet-Tin]

I fixed my box and bubbles are coming from the water fall effect from having such high baffles. I tried taking the sponges off and it went crazy. A lot more bubles came out as well and made it through my baffles.

[Viet-Tin]

IM alos going to remove the tee from the return line and try dumping a drainline into the fuge instead.

[GaryP]

Yes, its cheaper than spa flex. Spa flex is fine for drain lines, but the corrugations cause friction and restrict flow for return lines.

Gary

[Viet-Tin]

ok ill go check it out. thanks for your help

[NaCl_H2O]

Can you get a better/lighter picture of the sump/fuge? Can't tell where the baffles, pumps, etc. are located. From the pic your return pump looks way too close to the drain pipes.

[Viet-Tin]

heres a pic

[NaCl_H2O]

Still hard to tell, but I think your ****s/baffles are backwards?

Flow into the sump chamber with the return pump should be flowing "under" a baffle, not "over" a **** - the **** will just add bubbles back. The underflow (baffle) gives bubbles the chance to float up & escape. Even then, your small space may require some filter media in the baffles to knock out the bubbles?

[GaryP]

It also looks like the water level is above the baffles, therefore there is no over flow and underflow taking place. It would just take the path of least resistance and channel across the top.

[Richard]

I think each elbow adds about 1' of head pressure. Here's a handy calculator....
http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php

[Viet-Tin]

well the reason the water is over is because everything is unplugged. so it back siphoned into the tank. Im going to redo my baffles and redo a few things on the plumbing.