Hippo Gone.

[CD]

We lost Wendy's favorite fish today. Appears the hippo launched out of the tank duing the night. It was a gift from a close friend and she considers it her fault even though it isn't.
Wendy is very upset about losing this fish and I am beginning to wonder if it isn't time to pull the plug on this tank. We had lost a few clowns prior to now and the extent of her sadness gets worse every time.
I know she very much enjoys our tank but I can't help but wonder if we would be better off without the potential for this kind of depression/stress.
I haven't discussed this with Wendy yet but I don't know how much more I can take seeing her like this.

Thanks for listening.

C

[JimD]

Chris, I think pulling the plug is a bad idea, if you do that, you may as well get rid of all your other pets as well, these things happen, even though you feel like crap when it does, its all part of owning and caring for our beloved pets. No-one likes to lose a buddy and theres lots of guilt involved in trying to deal with it. Please reconsider your options.....

[dan]

i'm sorry for the lost but if you told me you were going to do that with my tank i would not only be depressed but i would go crazy. my tank is my only hobby and is part of my life. thats what you would take away. i really feel for wendy and the lost but not to the point to lose what she really enjoys. i hope things will work out.

[Ed]

Sorry for your loss.

It sucks when fish try to evolve like that. I lost a big Maroon clown that way. She apparently jumped on the center brace and found her way out a 1"x4" 'crack' in the hood.

I agree with JimD. Don't get out now. Try putting eggcrate over the top of your tank. Light still gets in but fish don't get out.

HTH.

-Ed

[DeAngelove]

Aww... he was a gorgeous fish, too.

I know, I just lost my Betta of over 4 years to PopEye... or the remnants of it. :(

Hang in there guys...

[captexas]

Chris - sorry to hear about the losses you and Wendy have had recently with your tank. I think we have all had instances while being in this hobby when we have lost an animal or just gotten plain frustrated with with not being able to get our tanks to improve. I have been there, even wrote up a list of all my equipment and prices and posted it once, it's tough. My advice is to not give up, hang in there. There are so many different factors that can cause fish to die or jump like that and many of them are out of your hands. Hopefully this is just some bad luck and things will get better. Keep your chin up and try to remember all the good things the two of you enjoy about this hobby.

And of course, you know if you ever need help, everyone is here for you.

[Instar]

I always wondered what makes one fish jump and the others not. Especially when they are not jumpers. I have open top tanks for the most part and often wonder about making either a full hood or a combination of a plexiglass wall/screen barrier to keep them where they are supposed to be. In the past I've spent countless hours trying to defeat jumpers. Sorry to hear a tang did that. We all feel for you, believe me and we've all been there by accident too. But then just look at the rest of the fish and things growing in there. Its so beautiful, the interaction, stuggle for survival, natural events and hours of pride and joy. A hobby that sparks such deep emotions -- what other hobby invokes such passions? Its the people who feel this deepest that are the greatest reefers and contribute the most to us all and to each other.
Thanks for caring and sharing it.

[NaCl_H2O]

Well said Larry!

Hang in there, it only hurts because of the level of your enjoyment & caring - add 'em up, I bet your enjoyment exceeds your sorrow, and your wins exceed your loses ... sounds like something to continue to me!

[Tim Marvin]

I have a couple engineer gobies she can have as replacement. After a couple of weeks she'll be wishing they'd jump, but they never do.....
Seriously though sorry to hear she is taking it so hard. I have lost a few fish over the years, but the flame hawk was my favorite. He baked under a halide.

[justin100]

The past week I have had a copperband butterfly, lion fish, powder brown tang, queen angel, and a flame angel. That's like over $150. Just keep going for the money you put into this hobby its not worth getting out.

[Tim Marvin]

Ouch, what are you putting these fish in? You shouldn't be losing that many fish in a week. Are you having a tank crash or do you keep adding fish and they are dieing?

[justin100]

It was over two or three weeks but most of them in the past week. My queen died 1 week after I had him he was eating great I don't know what happen. The flame and tang died four and five days after I had them. The CBB died one day out of the no where, I had him for a least 3 months. Last night my lion fish died and I had him for about three month, he had problems eating the past week, then he was at the bottom of the tank. The past week I have work my butt off trying to get my tank back the way it was, thing are good now I have to get my alkalinity little lower.

[Tim Marvin]

Any sign of disease or just up and died? Did they breath heavy? Sometimes acclimation from shipping can cause them to die a couple days to a week out... Who did you buy the fish from?

[NaCl_H2O]

I agree with Tim, that's a lot of loss over a few months. How high is your Alk? Have you examined your Nitrogen cycle lately? Had any Temp swings? Salinity swings?

[justin100]

Tim I think my lionfish had some type of disease not sure what, but a few days before it died my puffer got a hold of the lionfish back fin. there was no sign of heavy breathing. Most of the ones that died I bought in the bag at Fintque. As far as my levels go at the store they told me my Alk was at 5 and it should be around 3. But my salinity is fine and me temp is between 78-80. But my ammonia and nitrate where off and the p.h. was low. Since I have done my 2 25% water changes and added turbobuffer everything is leveling out.

[CD]

Thanks everyone for your kind words and support.
I know these things will happen. Wendy is affected very badly when these things happen, but like several of you said, the enjoyment factor of keeping the tank outweighs any of these occassional, upsetting events.
I will just have to find some eggcrate to put on the tank to try and curb the possibility of this happening again.
I know Wendy will appreciate all the kindness everyone is showing towards this difficult time.

Oh, and Tim, thanks for the offer on the goby- I think we will pass. :D

Thanks again, we appreciate all of you.

C

[Polkster13]

Chris,

What size tank do you have? I have some extra egg crate that might work for you (and it is free if you want to come get it). Give me a call on my cell. I gave you the number when you were out at my house a couple of weeks ago.

So sorry to hear about your loss.

[Jenn]

Gosh guys, I am so sorry to hear about this. I agree with everyone else and don't let this stop you from doing what you love. I know it is hard, but it was to no fault of yours. I can't believe a hippo jumped!?!
I have 3 of them and now am thinking I need to do something about my open areas as well.

Stick with it Wendy. The fish are lucky to have an owner like you. :)

[CD]

I'm just now seeing this thread, as I stayed off the 'puter yesterday after I found my sweet little Hippo on the carpet... Thank you everyone - for all your sweet words and encouragement. It is very much appreciated, and it makes me feel better that so many of you care. I really wish I could understand what made her jump. I am constantly checking on the tank - it's the last thing I do before I go to sleep at night, and the first thing I do when I wake up...not to mention througout the day. She was all bunkered in for the night - in her little spot in the rock work upon last check. I didn't see her swimming around first thing the next morning, but that wasn't surprizing, as she sometimes stays in the rock a little longer - especially right after we do the weekly water change. I didn't really worry until I went to feed them for their first meal of the day and she didn't show up...she had become quite the little piggie, and never missed a meal. At that point, I was frantically checking all the little caves, nooks, and crannys...even the floor, sump, overflow, etc... Still didn't see her, but I kept looking. I was afraid that she had gotten stuck in the rocks somewhere where I couldn't see, and was on the verge of tearing down the rockwork when I found her. Turns out she had managed to not only jump the tank, but had wedged herself behind one of the table legs that our 'fuge sits on (next to the tank) and some electrical wiring. :cry:

I've already talked to Chris this morning...we are not getting rid of the tank, but I have requested that we buy some eggcrate to put over the tank so this won't happen again. I know he worries when I cry over losing a fish, but that's just how I deal with my sorrow. I guess men just tend to keep the hurt inside more. Her loss was especially bad for me - not only was she a gift from a dear friend (falcam7/Carlos), but she had been very skinny and shy when he first brought her to me. I nursed her through all her troubles and fears, and she had become a beautiful, plump and gorgeous fish. Even her altercations with the yellow tang had stopped entirely a few weeks ago. I just can't imagine what would've scared her so badly that she jumped out. If I would've even had an inkling that this might have happened, I would've had *some* kind of covering over the tank long ago.

Anyway - thanks again, everyone...your concern is truly appreciated.

Wendy

[Instar]

Egg crate will cut a measurable percentage of light off from the tank when place directly on top, under the lights. You should be ready to add lights to cover that loss. It cuts less of the florescent than the halides. On the MH it will reduce the reflected light significantly as it tends to polarize to a degree depending on how far it is from the light source. I'm not being helpful, am I?

[NaCl_H2O]

Egg crate will cut a measurable percentage of light off from the tank when place directly on top, under the lights. You should be ready to add lights to cover that loss. It cuts less of the florescent than the halides. On the MH it will reduce the reflected light significantly as it tends to polarize to a degree depending on how far it is from the light source. I'm not being helpful, am I?

They also sell silver/reflective eggcrate at Home Depot/Lowe's - I wonder if that would help? I am sure it would diffuse the light somewhat, but maybe less loss of intensity?

[CD]

I'm not being helpful, am I?


Well Larry...I'm glad you said something, as I wouldn't want to lose corals by putting the egg crate over the tank! Thank you ;)

We currently have 400W 10ks over the tank (75G). This is a fairly new addition (we've only had them for about a month and a half), so more lighting at this point is just not financially viable. I really like the look of a hanging pendant better than the hoods...plus, there is not near as much heat build up with this type of set up. If you have any suggestions, I am all ears. It seems anything I've been able to come up with would significantly deplete the light to the corals...egg crate, window screening (the plastic kind), plexi-glass... Can you think of another alternative? Would it help to see the set up? We can post a pic later if it would help. The halides are suspended from a shelving unit/dowl, and are on a chain so the lights can be lowered or raised. There is a fairly wide support in the middle of the tank...maybe just cut the egg crate to cover like four inches to for the outer parimeter - leaving the center open? I dunno!

Suggestions?

Wendy

[Ram_Puppy]

Hey Wendy, like larry said, egg crate will definately reduce light over the tank, how about instead of laying it flat though, you put it on all four sides going UP, like a wall? That would probably be pretty ugly, but it's a thought.

I would avoid the silvered eggcrate, I have heard that whatever they use to 'silver' the plastic corrodes, I think I read that on reef central or something... last thing you want is chips of that stuff falling into your tank.

using the egg crate as a border might help as well, and if done right, you could probably avoid hampering the light, but it of course, leaves lspace open for your little friends to get out.

[oceancube]

hey wendy well sorry to hear about your loss, wanted to add, you can make the eggcrate like eurobracing , just make it the same size as tank then cut the hole in the center where the halides hit, that way you only cover up the ends of all sides, hth!!

[CD]

of laying it flat though, you put it on all four sides going UP, like a wall? That would probably be pretty ugly, but it's a thought


You know what, Ram? That's a darn good idea! Ooooo...OK, I'm going to do some drawings in the morning to see what I can come up with. You could actually frame it with wood, and have it just like a regular hood, only totally see through....with little doors on the front so I could feed and get in the tank for cleaning and maint. I think that could work. I feel a DIY project coming on.



hole in the center where the halides hit, that way you only cover up the ends of all sides, hth!!


Hmmm...yes, that kinda sounds like what I was originally thinking, only I was just going to cut in 4" strips, and use the centerbrace and the inside edges of the tank to hold it up. Your idea sounds better though - much more solid...so since I have a good size centerbrace, I could just get two large pieces of eggcrate, cut out the center to the desired protection extension, and place...and just like a glass lid, you could lift it off for maint., and feeding. This is a good idea too! As I said above, I'm going to do some drawings of both suggestions, and see what will look the best, and afford the most ease of use. Cool! I think this idea would be the least expensive. Thank you for the idea, and also for your kind words. Truly!

Wendy

[Ram_Puppy]

I hadn't thought of framing it out in wood wendy, that is a pretty cool idea.

[C.Mydas]

Wendy, you could also check out plexy glass. The guy we bought our hundred gallon from had a plexy glass rim going around the tank to keep his fish from jumping...it looked pretty cool too. He used the smoky balck plexy glass and it was about 8 inches tall. It sat on the tank exactly like a canopy just with no top.

[CD]

I hadn't thought of framing it out in wood wendy, that is a pretty cool idea.


Thanks! It wouldn't look *nearly* as tacky that way. I wonder...maybe painting the egg crate too - in lieu of just the stark white...hmmm...like a matte black spray paint. I wonder, would this be safe, or would the paint eventually peel due to the saltwater?



Wendy, you could also check out plexy glass.


This is also a fab idea, and it would look *really* nice IMO. Plexy is expensive though. I would need to find a wholesaler, or maybe even find an old (cheap) acrylic tank that someone was selling to cut up and use the pieces. Smoked would look *much* better though. Did he mention where he got the plexy and how much it was? Yes, whatever we decide on will have to have an open top due to the hanging pendants, and be as cost effective as possible. Thank you!

Wendy

[dan]

i could check it out for you if you want. i buy lots of acrylic and i'll sell it to you at cost. all i need is the sizes you need. i can call them and then i can call you on their prices. hopes this helps wendy. now people don't start calling for acrylic. just trying to help wendy ease her sorrow.

[CD]

Dan-

Thank you!!!!! Sending a PM...

Wendy

[CD]

Just wanted to let everyone know that Frederick (Polkster13) - being the caring guy that he is - brought over a large piece of egg crate for me to put over the tank at night. Now at least I will be able to get a good night's sleep, and not be waking up in the middle of the night worried that one of my other aquatic babies have jumped the crib.

Chris and I are going to try and measure the tank tonight to figure out how much acrylic we would need to build a DIY topless hood framed in wood as a more permanent solution. I've already drawn up some sketches for Chris (since he will be the builder), and he thinks it will work out great. I wouldn't even have been able to consider doing this without Dan!

Thank you, guys!! Thank you for caring so much, and for being so sweet to help! :)

Wendy

[NaCl_H2O]

Wendy, if you go plexiglass, even if the top is open you may want to through some fans into your planning? If the halides are "within" the plexiglass hood, I would expect more heat will be reflected onto the water and would raise the tank temp. Some fans blowing across under the halides, or pulling air out the top might be needed?

[Richard]

I have alot of jumpers in my 215 so I built tops out of aluminum window screen kits they sell at HD for about $8. They keep the fish in and do not seems to impact the lighting too much. I'm sure there is some reduction in light but I think less than you would get with eggcrate.

[CD]

expect more heat


I had thought about that...one thing we were thinking about doing was cutting 4 or 5" slits in the acrylic on both the intake and outlet sides (existing fan areas) of the pendant, and also, we have a 1/3 HP chiller to help out with any other heat issues. I think maybe one more fan would be a good idea though...to keep the chiller from running all the time (I'm sure a little fan would pull less power than the chiller does). Does that sound like it would work? Would it be better (providing we only use one extra fan) to have it pulling the air out, or blowing cool air in? Or do you think two fans would be a requirement? I think HD has some fairly inexpensive ones?

The design I've drawn is going to definitely be open top. It will look just like a regular hood if viewing from the front - only topless with bracing on the either side of where the pendant would hang, and clear or smoked acrylic instead of solid wood. We could either frame along the top and sides in wood and not frame the bottom (so holes can be cut out for the overflow, etc.), or just have the whole thing acrylic with no wood framing. I haven't really decided on that issue yet, but I think just the solid acrylic would look cleaner. Plus I'm working on what kind of doors I want on the front so I can get into the tank to feed and clean without having to remove the top or use a ladder every time. The final design is still a work in progress, but I've got a pretty good idea what I'm leaning towards. As I draw stuff, I always want Chris to look at it too - to make sure what I'm drawing will be feasible, and strong...thank goodness he's good at this kind of thing! Heh...he's already had to squelch one of my designs. The only other thing that I'm unsure about is how tall to make this thing...?? Would like 6 inches be enough, or?

Wendy

[JimD]

Aluminum? Or gray fiberglass?

[CD]

there is some reduction in light but I think less than you would get with eggcrate.


When Frederick brought the egg crate over, he showed me how much light depletion I was going to get putting it over the tank beneath the light. It was significant. That's why I was leaning more towards a vertical design rather than horizontal. I figure it would be best to take my time with the design though, as Chris has to see the updates so I don't come up with something that will be too weak or inefficient. I have so many ideas...even to the point of using some of the egg crate on the sides where the intake and outlet of the pendant fans are located. I'm constantly checking the tank and the inhabitants during the day, but at night - especially until I can decide on the completed design of this thing - that egg crate is going to give me invaluable peace of mind. I'll tell you Richard...since I lost the Hippo, I haven't been able to sleep worth a darn. I've been up checking the inhabitants at least three times a night. At least - thanks to Frederick, I'll be able to sleep tonight.

Wendy

[CD]

Aluminum? Or gray fiberglass?


Huh? <in my best Tony Montana voice> Are you talkin' to me? :?

Wendy

Heheh...oh, nevermind...yer talkin' to Richard.. ;)

[NaCl_H2O]

If you wanted to spend a little ca$h for a really nice wood/smoked plexiglass open hood - I bet ~Pete~ could help you design & build something really classy!

Didn't realize you had a chiller - you are way ahead of the game for cooling. I would just make sure you are drawing some fresh/cool air around the halides. With the open top, the hot air should rise and the design may actually help/improve your evaporation?

Just had a thought ... if hot/humid air is on one side of the plexiglass, and dry cooler air is on the outside ... I wonder if condensation might be a problem, hum?

Maybe Dan has an opinion on this one?

[Richard]

I used the aluminum screen. I wasn't sure how the other stuff would do sitting right under 400w bulbs.

Mark has a handy dandy light meter. I see if he'll bring it over and I can tell you just how much the light is reduced.

[Polkster13]

Wendy,

Thank you for the kind words. When I was over there I noticed you had a lot of stuff coming into the tank from the back. I like the idea of a topless plexiglass hood. You will need to leave a slot across the back for access to all of these current items and any future items. But this slot will be a place where fich can escape. So you could use some window screen or mesh netting (say, from an old large fish net) and make a screen to cover any openings in the slot not covered up by equipment (that is coming and going from your tank).

I hope that is coherant and makes sense. It is pretty early in the morning and I make not be making sense. If you have any questions, please feel free to call me on my cell to discuss further.

Good luck and hopefully the coming nights will only bring blistful dreams of happy reefing!

[CD]

~Pete~ could help you design & build something really classy!


Yeppers...I've seen some of his creations for other members, and he *does* do really nice work! Chris and I just wanted to give this a try ourselves, hence the reason I am trying to be careful about the design to make sure that it will serve the purpose that it was intended for...plus we are going to be doing this on an very tight budget.



Just had a thought ... if hot/humid air is on one side of the plexiglass, and dry cooler air is on the outside ... I wonder if condensation might be a problem, hum?


Hmmm...I don't know, and hadn't thought about that. I'm hoping if there is enough air circulating, that it wouldn't be a problem, but I may be wrong. Anybody?



I hope that is coherant and makes sense


That makes perfect sense, and is a fab solution. I knew we would have to have cut-outs to allow for the equipment, and netting would cover up the small gaps perfectly! Thanks!

Wendy

[Richard]

Arrrrgh! Mark brought me his light meter and just created a bunch of work for me. Now I have to make some changes to my lighting on my 215. Pretty cool gadget though. Anyway here's the light reduction results...

Aluminum screen - reduced the light by 20%. Bummer, I was thinking it was only 5 -10%

Eggcrate w/ beveled edges facing up = 32% reduction
Eggcrate w/ beveled edges facing down = 46% reduction

I didn't even know there was an up and down side on eggcrate.

[Ram_Puppy]

WOW. That is a far larger reduction than I was imagining!

[CD]

I didn't even know there was an up and down side on eggcrate.


LOL - I didn't either...I even went and looked at the piece Frederick brought, and can't tell which side is which. Thanks for posting those results though....good to know ;)

Wendy