Who's using T-5's?

[adamRS80]

I'll be setting up my new tank soon, planning on doing a 75 so it'll be relatively shallow. I think I'm going to use a 6 tube T5 setup to light it. I wanted to see if anybody else has a tank running T-5's and if so, how many, and what are you keeping in the tank. I do nearly all SPS and have the equipment and everything to have two 250w MH running on Icecap electronic ballasts but I'm seriously considering going with T-5's instead because of their energy efficiency, low heat (in comparison to MH), and long tube live (up to 2 years). I understand that buying new equipment will offset any electricity savings for a while but I'd like something that looks nice, isn't really tall, quiet (no fans) and so on. Any thoughts?

[GaryP]

Who says that you can go 2 years between blub changes? The vendors? Do you know anyone that has gone 2 years between bulb changes?

Excuse my skepticism but I'm going to wait until T5's are a proven technology before putting the money and well being of my reef at risk. Aren't these some of the same vendors that make claims that their supplements (many of which are snake oil in my opinion) are all you need for the best tank in the world?

Gary

[Ed]

I have T5s on my 180. 8x39W (4 - 65K and 4 actinic). Switched from 2x250W XM 10K and really like the T5s. Don't keep much SPS, have mainly LPS and softies, but also have a large Derasa and two Croceas that are all doing well. Maybe 2 years between bulb changes is a stretch, too soon to tell. Greg at 360 Reef has good prices on T5s and MH, so to me bulb life is not a big issue. Though I am sure some will disagree, my guess is that the 6 bulb (6X54W) system you suggest for the 75 would be fine for SPS. Reflectors make a huge difference with T5s. Be sure to get ones that wrap (like a mini spider reflector) around the bulbs and focus the light downward. PM me if you would like to see my setup.

HTH.

-Ed

[donniekim]

Reflectors make a huge difference with T5s. Be sure to get ones that wrap (like a mini spider reflector) around the bulbs and focus the light downward. PM me if you would like to see my setup.

HTH.

-Ed

From what I understand you need this type of reflector on EACH bulb, not 1 reflector for all.

Just what I've read!? :lol:
Donnie

[::pete::]

Here is a link (http://www.nelt.co.jp/nhe_hp/t5/t5.htm) that might answer some questions.

[Ed]

Reflectors make a huge difference with T5s. Be sure to get ones that wrap (like a mini spider reflector) around the bulbs and focus the light downward. PM me if you would like to see my setup.

HTH.

-Ed

From what I understand you need this type of reflector on EACH bulb, not 1 reflector for all.

Just what I've read!? :lol:
Donnie

Correct. Thanks for pointing that out. Some of the fixtures use one large reflector that has several 'spider' type indentations - one for each bulb.
Kind of like this: |_/`O`\_/`O`\_/`O`\_/`O`\_/`O`\_/`O`\_|

[Jenn]

I am so glad you asked this question and can't wait to hear some more input on it. I have been thinking about the same thing. I am just learning about the pros and cons of a MH system and was wondering why you can't just go w/ T5's entirely? To me it seems like it would be much more efficient and quiet and you could keep almost anything. Very interesting on the reflector info. - makes sense.

[Tim Marvin]

I have switched to T-5 and getting much better color out of the acropora! I am still running 250 DE halides with them, but the T-5's actinic is getting a huge improvement over the VHO I was using and less power for the T-5. Two thumbs up from me! They are awesome.

[jrhein]

So do they make a retrofit kit to stick in your hood? IF so where do you get them?

[Tim Marvin]

You can buy them at a lot of places online and some local stores. Here on the board, Greg, (goes by 360reef), and has coralvue T-5's with some very nice retro kits with waterproof endcaps. Aquatek, RiverCity, Gallery of Pets, and probably some other stores carry them here in Austin.

[adamRS80]

If they fall somewhere in between Metal Halide and VHOs or PCs as far as intensity I think they will be fine, especially for a shallow tank such as the 75 gallon I mentioned. Although the bulb life might not actually be 2 years, if it's more than a year than I'll take it, and I'm sure it's probably somewhere around 1.5 years to be realistic. The energy used by six 48" T-5s should be less than a 250w MH depending on what type of ballast on the MH, and on a tank this size I'd need at least two so power consumption is extremely low in comparison. Heat should be low as well which kind of falls in the same catagory as energy since it costs money to keep the tank cool. Hopefully no more keeping the house an extra degree or two cooler just for the tank. Fan noise is gone which can be an issue if your tank is in the living room with two or three fans cranking all the time. I might miss the shimmer that Metal Halide gives the tank but thats about it.

[adamRS80]

http://www.aquarium-lighting-guide.com/fluorescent

This link has some information. Says T-5 tubes may last up to three years. The fact that they can claim anything above two years is impressive to me in comparison to every other type of lighting out there. Not saying it's 100% true but there has to be some information and experience behind the claim.

[Tim Marvin]

We are running T-5's one one tank and it has some SPS as well as RBTA's and other corals. I have not noticed any color loss, but they have only been in there for a few weeks. This is a 75 breeder with 4 T-5's.

[GaryP]

OK, what about larger tanks? One of the advantages of VHO is that they make the larger bulbs with higher outputs (up to 160 watts). The largest T5 I have seen was about 80 watts. At what point does the financial break point occur where it makes more sense to go with VHO. Does that point even exist?

I'm currently in the planning stages of a 240 gal. system. I was planning on putting in 640 watts (4 X 160 watt) of VHO actinic lighting into the tank. What would be the equivalent (from an output standpoint) wattage of T5 actinic lighting? I could run that off of 2 icecap ballasts. I'm looking at it from the standpoint of how many T5 ballasts I would have to run to get the equivalent system. I'm sure that T5 would eventually give a payback based on blub life and electric usage, but how far out is that payback?

Gary

[Tim Marvin]

I'm not sure, they have a 60 inch T-5. All I can say is I have been seeing much better results using 54w T-5's than I did with the URI actinic VHO's 115w. I'm sold on T-5 just as I am sold on DE halides VS mogul.

[::pete::]

Tim
Is the blue more intense on the T5 compared to the VHO?

[Tim Marvin]

I think so.

[GaryP]

I need to research the spectrum on the T5 vs. VHO.

I seem to recall seeing, or hearing, that T5 doesn't produce 420 nm light. After researching that issue I found that corals don't have to have 420 nm (UV) but it does help in the production of proteins that lead to color development (pigments).

[Tim Marvin]

Well, all I can say is since I took off the VHO and put on the T-5's the color has greatly improved. Nice dark purple digi, caps, and better looking neon greens also. I was very skeptical also and it took me over a year to give them a try. I wish I had done it alot sooner.

[adamRS80]

What is the best way to measure output, since watts is related to energy consumption and not light output? I don't know the answer to how many watts of T-5 would equal a certain amount of VHO output but from what I know the T-5s put out more light, not just for the amount of power they use, but that they are actually brighter than VHO and PC. Premium Aquatics claims that they are "an excellent alternative to metal halide" when you click on lighting, and then flourecents there is a little write up about them.

As for deeper tanks I would say that nothing can match Metal Halide as far as penetration of the water is concerned. I would probably not use T5s as the main light source on anything deeper than 24 inches but I have no scientific information to back that up, I just think that even though they are very bright, they still do not produce the arc that the metal halide does.

[GaryP]

I'm looking at them as an alternative to VHO for an actinic supplement to MH bulbs, not as the primary "white" bulbs.

Gary

[netrunner]

Hey Adam,

I had the 4x54w tek light on my 90 for about a year and all I had was sps. There are pics in these forums of the tank I think, in fact I just posted a pic of cap frag that I got from you and the amount of growth I have gotten. I did just recently switch to halides, but I will gladly slap anyone that thinks t5's can't do the job. A 6 bulb tek light on a 75 would be awesome. Merry Christmas everyone
Joe

[Reef69]

Hey Joey, you sold the T5s?..How much did they go for if you dont mind Me asking..

[netrunner]

250$,
I tried to give you a heads up but you sounded like you had something else working so I didn't push the issue. I'll call you later.

[Reef69]

yeah, well..Im in Mexico right now..so, ill call you when i go back to s.a on monday..

[adamRS80]

Joey thanks for chiming in on this. I was hoping you'd post something. I think I am going to go for the 6x54w Tek light. The 75 is a little more shallow than the 90 you mentioned and I'ev only heard good things from you. We'll see, I need to find a used 75 gallon tank first.

[netrunner]

not a problem adam. When you get the tek light 6 unit, be sure and get a couple of blue+ bulbs, as they REALLY bring out the colors of your corals. For a 6 bulb unit, I would go with 2 aquablues, 2 blue+, 1 sun, and 1 actinic. This would give you a nice 14k-ish look and then the blue+ on sunrise/sunset would look awesome. And by the way, it's after 10:30 on Christmas, why are we on MAAST?:)

[adamRS80]

Last chance to discuss T-5 lighting or this thread will become history. Anybody else running T-5s want to chime in on their capabilities. Anybody know hard facts about how much light they put out in comparison to VHO or PC or other proven information. I'm just interested in knowing Premium Aquatics calls them an excellent alternative to metal halide. I believe that is true in shallow tanks but I'd like to see if anybody else has some information about T-5 lighting. If not I'm sure this topic will pop up in the future.

[GaryP]

Alton loaned me his light meter. It measures in candle power, not PAR, but it should be good for testing some lights and comparing to MH. It wouldn't be a truly scientific test but for a rough comparison it would be good. I know what I'm getting from my MH. I'd like to see what it compares to with the T-5s.

BTW, I'm re-reading Sanjay's article on MH light/ballast comparisons right now.

Gary

[GaryP]

has anyone ever checked into sulfur bulbs?

Gary

[Brett Wilson]

I'm with Tim on this one, I prefer the color of my corals under T5s.
I've been reef keeping since mid 2000 and have tried many many PC, VHO, and halide combinations.
I prefer the T5's.
Sorry I can't provide more tangible evidence other than I was happier with them. Not because I wanted to be, not because I'm selling T5's, but because my corals simply looked better In My Humble Opion :)

[MikeDeL]

Yall think 4 T-5s will be plenty of light for most anything on a 45 breeder. I was going to us halides but after reading this thread Im thinking maybe I could do 4 T-5s, and maybe later on I could add a third pair if needed.


Thanks,
Mike

[Tim Marvin]

It hurts my eyes to look directly at them. PC's never did that or VHO. MikeDel, I think you would probably do well with 4 T-5's.

[GaryP]

Is anyone using T-5's as actinic supplement, with MH, on a large tank? I see them used frequently on small to mid size tanks, but it seems like VHO actinics are still used primarily on the large tank setups that I have seen.

Gary

[adamRS80]

I know that CB pets uses them to supplement on their coral and frag tanks. They're not real deep but they are mounted pretty high above the water. Also the price of a T5 retro kit seems very reasonable. Gary I know for sure that T5s are more powerful than VHOs and PCs so I would think that they would be the best option to supplement your MH. I don't know how deep Tim Marvins and Bretts tanks are but I'm sure it's deeper than 24"

[GaryP]

Brett,

I'm looking hard at it, but its looking like a case of geometry. I'm trying to figure out how to get as many bulbs as I want under a hood.

I was originally planning on 640 watts of VHO actinic (4 X 160 watt) on my new tank. According to Tim you can get about the same effect as VHO in a ratio of about 2:1. So that brings me to 320 watts. I probably need 2 X 216 watt fixtures (4 X 54 watt, 48") plus the 4 MH fixtures. I'm just trying to figure out how to fit all of that under an 8 ft. hood. Do you know the width of a 4 bulb T-5 reflector? I can't seem to find it on any of the websites.

Gary

[GeoB]

Just to reiterate the importance of using reflectors specifically designed for T5s: My understanding is that a T5 bulb don't necessarily have a higher output than a VHO bulb, but that the small diameter of the T5 allows for the use of a very efficient reflector design which is what helps it outperform the VHO. An equally efficient reflector could be designed for a VHO bulb, but the thickness of the VHO bulb would require this reflector to be something like 6 inches across which would be impractical since it would severly limit the number of bulbs that could be put over a tank.

[Brett Wilson]

Gary,

I agree with GeoB that T5's need a decent reflector to work properly.
The concensus on the nano board and on RC is that the sunlight supply reflectors are the best:
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aquarium/images/products/prodshot_comp_retroreflect.jpg
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aquarium/products/lighting_components.shtml
according to reef geek they are 2.0" wide:
http://www.reefgeek.com./products/categories/lighting/104050.html
Greg (360Reef) is selling these now!!

Personally, I am considering running 4 ATI T5's on my 20g tank with the nicer parabolic reflectors... unless I run across a good deal on a tek light.

[GaryP]

Sunlight supply says some guy named Joshua is their distributor in SA. I wonder who that could be?

Gary

[Brett Wilson]

nice! Joshua, hook us up!

[GaryP]

OK, I've been sitting here doodling and drawing hood diagrams and I think I have it figured out now.

I'll use 2 - 2X60" T-5 fixtures with the blue bulbs across the back of the tank, and 4 - 250 watt MH across the front. That's not nearly a Jim Norris light show but it should do the job. I can always add more later.

Gary

[::pete::]

Whay not put 1 in front and 1 in back?

[MikeDeL]

How high off the water should I keep these on my 45 breeder when using them as my primary light source?


Thanks,
Mike

[Brett Wilson]

I stand corrected, Greg (360Reef) has been ordering the sunlight supply reflectors lately.

MikeDel, I would have them an inch or two or three off the surface.. I guess it depends on your canopy and how well the light spreads. I haven't seen 4 bulbs on an 18" wide tank yet like your breeder.

[GaryP]

Whay not put 1 in front and 1 in back?

The bulbs are 60" long, the tank is 96" long. I wouldn't be able to get full coverage end to end if I centered them. Pete, I'll show you how I have it diagrammed when I next see you and I'll let you see if you have a better idea.

Gary

[JimD]

Hey! Will T5's run off an IceCap 430 ballast?

[TexasState]

I'm using T5 to light my study desk, and to warm up my snacks.

[Tim Marvin]

JimD I'm 90% sure they will, but contact Greg to be sure.

[Brett Wilson]

JimD: Yes

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=480090

[360Reef]

Jim, as Brett stated T5 will run off any VHO or HO ballast.

-Greg

[GaryP]

Wow, I have a spare Icecap ballast. This is starting to come together.

I was talking to Alton last night. He was talking about a plug 'n play T5 system that allows you to hook them together in series. Each fixture has it own built in ballast, sort of like an NO fixture. Anyone seen these?

Gary

[adamRS80]

I've seen them. Champion lighting has them I think.

[cbazhaw]

Greg,

Sent you a PM about getting some T5 retro kits on my next trip to Austin.

[JimD]

Ok, cool,. I have a spare 430, now then,,, what type of settup would be suggested for a 36" tank, actinics only, what components would I need to replace my VHO's? I already have the harness, Im sure Ill need endcaps? Would T5 actinics be considered a step up (talking color here) compared to VHO's? - Other than the predicted lifespan.

[Brett Wilson]

JimD, you are balancing out a 10K XM right?
I'd run two of the actinic03's with the proper sun light supply reflector.
one in front, one in back. or you could run 4 if you really wanted some blue...
Comparing them to VHO is kinda tough because they aren't as purple but in the graphs i've seen they actually have a ton of light throughout the whole 'actinic' spectrum (400nm-450nm).
The URI VHO super actinic R's are the most purple looking bulb out there in that they put out a lot of 420nm actinic, however; that is also because they lack much/any of the blue 450nm color spectrum. personally I like a mix of 400-450nm. Visually the T5's put out a bit of blue and purple such that neither color 'washes' out the tank like some of the older blue bulbs used to (mostly PCs). In my experience my corals seemed to flouresce more with the T5's compared to the super actinic R's.Here's the graph of the ATI actinic (also coralvue) (http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aquarium/images/products/spec_fl_lamp_atiactinic.jpg)

[Brett Wilson]

Yes, you will need T5 specific end caps.

[JimD]

Hhhmmm, thanks for the info Brett, I wouldnt mnd seeing a comparison chart between T5's and VHO's. What kind of wattages are we talkin with the T5 36"rs? I noticed the the T5's have slight output in the 540-575nm range along with minor output in the what appears to be the UV range, interesting bandwidth. Also, you mentioned URI super actinic "R", is that a newer lamp from URI? The ones I have dont have the "R" denotation.

[Brett Wilson]

no, the URI super actinic R's are quite old...

[::pete::]

The bulbs are 60" long, the tank is 96" long. I wouldn't be able to get full coverage end to end if I centered them.

Why not do 48" 2 in front 2 in back? You would get full coverage then.

How many T5bulbs or ft of T5 bulbs can be run off one ballast?

When I ordered my VHO from HelloLights I was told I can run 4 60" bulbs off the ballast so if I wanted to change it out later I just needed to order the harness, endcaps and bulbs.

[Ed]

Jim,

The 36" T5HO is a 39W bulb.

[Polkster13]

I will be soon! Greg (360 Reef) has ordered 6 - 60 inch T5's with 3 ballasts and reflectors to replace the 36" double PC on my 135 main tank.

[alexwolf]

the cheap ones Champion sells are NO T5. Those are the ones you daisy chain. The HO is what you need for proper aquarium use.

[Tim Marvin]

Greg's are all HO! I am still having great color and growth.