URGENT - Need Help ASAP!!

[thedraven]

Alright guys.. its been a trying 24 hours and I need your help in a bad way. I need as many opinions and suggestions as you can give me.. I went out yesterday and bought a tiny blue hippo tang and a perc clown for my 72 bowfront reef. All was well and good in the lfs, colors were fine and both were eating in front of me. Took these guys home and acclimated them over two hours, and the hippo goes into hiding. By this morning she is completely ich infested, heavily salted with cloudy eyes (I cannot see her pupils). Despite the ich, she ate rather well when I fed flake this morning (trying to get her to eat nori - so far no luck). The clown is fine. My cleaner shrimp has been going mad cleaning the hippo, but it doesnt seem to be helping much. Im going to the lfs in an hour and need opinions of what treatments I should buy.

Keep in mind I dont have a QT setup (I know I know, but I dont have much room), and this is a reef setup with inverts. No other fish have any signs of ich yet. What can I do to treat this, and what worked for you guys? Im definitely going to buy another cleaner shrimp and probably a neon goby, as I hear those eat parasites. But what kind of ich treatment should I buy? I thank all of you saltwater gurus in advance for any advice you might share with me. Im really stressing over this.. I just bought this gorgeous/expensive fish last night and shes already sick!!

[C.Mydas]

Cleaner shrimp, neon goby's, drip garlic and a UV sterilizer are going to be your best bets.
If you're brave enough a fresh water dip...although I wouldn't do it..it might stress the fish out more and make it worse.
Good luck!!

[abe77901]

My hippo went through the exact same thing when I brought him home, plenty of food and bedrest for the little fellow is what this doctor recommends, hippo's are known to become stressted easily and show signs of ich, keep well fed, maybe garlic drip, and watch closely...bet it goes away in a few days after he becomes familiar with his new surrondings.

[dan]

i would say leave it alone. the hippo tang is a ick magnet.

[thedraven]

Im going to dig around and try to find my kent garlic.. she hasnt been eating nori which I believe is only aggravating the problem. I read on one of the message board that I can use Kent RX-P and Poly-Ox in a reef setup as an effective treatment. I just called my lfs and they recommended Kick-Ich, but Ive only heard negative things about it. How long will it be before I start seeing other fish with ich? :(

[C.Mydas]

Depends on what other fish you have. We introduced a Kole tang that gave our poweder blue tang ich but none of the other fish have it. We have purple, yellow and chevron tangs that are all ich free but the powder blue still has it. Here's the ironic part they all eat everything including pellets, brine, and algae snacks, we drip garlic, had neon goby's and cleaner shrimps, and run a UV sterilizer 24-7. Out of all of these we saw the largest improvement with the neon goby's.

I guess my point is once they have it your new goal is keeping it under control, keep the hippo fat and happy and you should definately have algae snacks in the tank all day for it to graze on. It took our tangs a couple of days to realize it was food and start eating it so be patient.

Our tangs wont touch Nori either we feed "Julian Sprungs Sea Veggies: Purple Seaweed"

Hope that helps!

[thedraven]

Well, just got back from the lfs, and all the owner recommended was garlic (despite another employee having advertised Kick-Ich). So I guess Ill continue to drip garlic and just wait to see how she develops. I also picked up another cleaner shrimp, so I hope this helps. No neon gobies.. apparently they dont last in my lfs' tanks. Ill keep my eyes open for any dealer that sells them however. In the meantime I went ahead and picked up some Kent RX-P and Poly-Ox just in case the ich spreads or worsens. Ill be keeping a close eye here..

[JeffCo]

Are you just dripping the garlic in the water? It works much better if you soak some krill, mysis shrimp, or brine shrimp in the garlic for about 15 minutes. Then feed it to them. Worked like a charm for me.

[Instar]

There is a recommended dose for garlic juice if you believe in this early settlers magic brew. I wouldn't drip it or soak flake food in it. Soaking a flake will OD the fish in garlic. Instead switch to frozen brine shrimp that is fortified with spirulina and put a drop of garlic extract made for a salt water "treatment" in that as it thaws. Some brands of flake foods are not that great a food, but that does depend on what brand it is. There are some that have heavy metals and are toxic. Ocean nutrition, same people who make the frozen cubes, has proven to be a good one and I use that as one of them for my baby clowns. Temperature is next - Keep the temperature up and check it in the morning and in the evening. It should be the same and it should be warm. If the temp drops at night after it gets cold outside and the lights are out, this will enhance ick. Hippos, especially small ones kept alone, hide a lot. They pop the dorsal fin up and wedge in between a couple rocks and don't move much. Hippos are definitely succeptable to ick and even more so after being caught with a net and acclimated only for 2 hours. Stores keep water very diluted. Did you test the bag it came in and then your tank first? Did you test the salinity of the bag after you "thought" it was acclimated? If not, my bet is that it was not the same and you added some osmotic shock to the net scraped fish, compounding the problem. There is no magic cure for that except time and it can go either for or against the fish depending on how different it was between bag and tank. If its a small hippo, it may not try much nori. Try something a little softer like live feather caulerpa. I use a "snake oil" myself that everyone scoffs at, so if you don't get it licked, let me know. The cleaner shrimp and neon goby may be helpful but may add more woe if acclimated too fast as well. Good luck.

[elm0]

I'm planning on bringing home an Achiles Tang in the near future and really want to avoid this happening if at all possible. I've already gotten a large cleaner shrimp in preperation, I've heard about the garlic helping, I picked up some Formula Two frozen food today, was told that it has garlic in it so it would be good to feet the Tang right away. Will that be sufficient or should I also soak in a garlic solution....if so, what kind, or any other suggestion to prepare for the new arrival?

[NaCl_H2O]

Everything good in a reef tank happens slowly, everything bad happens quickly. You are past the Quick, give it time and don't be dumping tons of chemicals and "cleaners" into the tank. Ick isn't "Caught" by fish, it is always present. It gets out of control due to stress and unhealthy conditions. Soaking Brine in Garlic may help, but more than anything, keep sources of stress away from your tank. Maybe reduce the photoperiod a little (not a bunch), and don't be sticking hands, chemicals, nets, or anything else in the tank if not needed.

Check ALL your parameters to make sure unknown sources of stress are not present. If they are, change them SLOWLY - change is stress too!

With a young Hippo, you probably have a 50/50 chance.
Good luck - keep us posted.

[thedraven]

Ick isn't "Caught" by fish, it is always present. It gets out of control due to stress and unhealthy conditions

Thats an interesting theory, and one that seems quite possible. Thanks for posting that.. got me thinking.

As far as her acclimation - Im very careful to monitor all levels with the water and dont release the fish until everything (and I mean everything) is evened out. Unfortunately I just didnt realize how easily these type of tangs (blue and purple) stress, and Im sure my lfs guy running around in circles with my hippo in a bag while he tried to hurriedly adjust his skimmer and other tanks wasnt a good thing. As soon as I got out of the store, she went into styrofoam container and was covered from the light, and remained in the dark until several hours after acclimation (only then did I use my moon lights). If I did anything wrong (acclimation wise), it might have been adjusting the water levels too quickly. I was always under the impression that only inverts needed a long acclimation period spanning four or more hours. Hey Instar - Id love to hear about your secret formula. :eek:

By the way, my photo period doesnt seem tooooo long.. I run 4x96 pc with the following schedule - actinics 11am-7pm, daylights 12pm-6pm, moonlights 24-7. She was under multiple VHO/metal halide fixtures at this lfs which has rows of tanks tiered up the walls. None of my fish seem shocked or stressed with this schedule. :)

Anyhow, the hippo seems to be doing better today, the ick has cleared up quite a bit and her blue coloration is much more vivid, the palette is velvet jet black. Beautiful. Ive been soaking nori in garlic and leaving it on a mag-float (my old foxface used to love this), but she still hasnt touched it. To make sure shes getting enough veges/garlic, I went out and bought some Formula Two with 2% garlic. Im also feeding standard marine flakes and large frozen krill shrimp. She also scarfed down a few stalks of grape macro I had growing on my live rock. Im sure the cleaner shrimp(s) have helped also.. shes constantly parked by them. Thanks to the fact that Im a student (and not presently employed), I can be home all day for multiple smaller feedings.

I also used some Kent Rx-P despite recommendations, and it was suprisingly gentle on my inverts (shrimps, snails, and anemone). Still, my first priority will be her diet and garlic supplementation. Id like to thank all of you guys for being so helpful and putting in your 2 cents - I really truly appreciate the help!! Ill try to keep this thread updated with her progress for future reference, and hopefully it can help other hobbyist out in similar situations.

[Instar]

Thats an interesting theory, and one that seems quite possible. Thanks for posting that.. got me thinking.

Thats not a theory.


scarfed down a few stalks of grape macro

A nice soft, GARLIC FREE (take note here) macro. She turns up her nose at the garlic soaked nori, but eats non-garlic macro. She is communicating with you. Listen to her and not all the potion people who believe in garlic. (They used to sell this magic cure from the back of wagons with a monkey in the wild west days. Yes I've read the magazines.) Formula 2 touting a 2% garlic is far, far less than what you are doing with a "soak". Its only possible usefulness is in small amounts in marine organisms, if at all. Here is one more thing for you to think about: I never use garlic and never have ick issues and don't own a sterilizer just in case. I do keep a certain few select macros (not grape caulerpa or maidens cup) in the system as well as something anemone like (a small anemone or colony of palythoa or some similar interesting things that can sting) and many fliter feeders of all sorts if its a large system for more than just breeding. Keep some macro (like prolifera or something that doesn't go asexual all the time) where the tangs can't eat it all. Since you do add chemicals, you don't have a lot of micro organisms to keep things in balance. You'll have to add those back whenever you get the drugs out of there completely.

Your photo period is too short. Tropical fish come from a photo period of 12 to 14 hours and the moon doesn't shine all night long. They will achieve maximum health with a photopeiod of 12 to 18 hours, 6 hours minimum of actual darkness. This is based on actual recorded measurements with laval and immature fish, not on generic magazine articles. Ever been to sea during a new moon? Man its dark out there. Those moonlights are high powered spotlights compared to that! My copperbands will hunt pods and eat so long as the moonlights are on and that means they would never rest if moonlights stay on all night long. That supports the measured photoperiod useful times. Also some of the other fish bed down when the lights go low and wrasses go under the sand and stay there for at least 12 hours most of the time. Scooter blennies will bury in the sand and stay all night long in their beds. The habits indicate the measurements for photoperiod are correctly interpreted. If you change the photoperiod to a more normal 12 hour day, make the changes slowly as indicated in an earlier post.

[::pete::]

My Regal had ich recently and thankfully ... briefly. I attribute it to the first cold snap we had because the heat wasnt on and the room temp dropped causing the tank temp to drop at night.

I mix a couple drops of garlic in my food everyday when feeding along with vitamins and sometimes soak the nori too.

Here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181818&perpage=25&highl ight=ginger&pagenumber=1) is a thread on RC that also has ich as a topic. Im not saying its a cure ... just passing it on.

[Instar]

You got it right with the temp drop, that'll do it alright.

Ginger to garlic. Same same.

[Jenn]

I have 3 blue regals, 1 of which was no larger than my thumbnail when introduced. They will get some noticible white spots which I am assuming are ich, but with 2 cleaner shrimp and a good varied diet, it quickly goes away.

[thedraven]

Indeed, this is proving to be quite an interesting discussion. So many conflicting views.. I love it. :grin: Well todays update is..

On day 3 shes looking even better, very very few ick spots on her and so far the other inhabitants arent showing anything odd. Shes still been spending the majority of her time being cleaned by the shrimp pair, and Im trying to feed as varied a diet as possible. In fact Ill be going out again today to buy more food. Any recommendations guys? Last night I went ahead and turned on a maxijet 1200, as Ive had only one filter running since introducing her. Ill slowly start using my other maxis and second filter to increase flow.. so far shes loving it. Shes been bounding all over the tank in the cross current. So far so good..

[NaCl_H2O]

So, how is your Hippo?

[Tim Marvin]

OK here is what I beleive. Hippos will usually clear up no matter what you do if it keeps eating. Garlic I beleive stimulates some fish into an eating frenzy, which helps the fish get the nutrition it needs to "kick the ick", so the arlic in itself does not kill the ick. If ginger causes a feeding reaction it would be the same catalyst as garlic as far as I am concerned.. I don't use a UV, and rarely use garlic. I would have to go with a mixture of Joshua and instars advice if it was me.

[thedraven]

Alright guys.. days 4 and 5. :grin:

Well shes looking wonderful. I cant see anymore ick on her, and shes quite active in the tank (eating like a little piggie). Im holding my breath on the possibility of ick returning to my tank in the next two weeks (if the ick cycle remains true to legend). Only time will tell if shes the only one.. Im also wondering about the possibility of getting a yellow tang. I keep reading conflicting arguements about that - some folks say its better to keep tangs in pairs or schools, than alone. On the other hand, 72 gals isnt very large, despite the fact that I only have small fish (chromis, clown, firefish), save for the hippo (current size is maybe 2"). Lets have some opinions of this guys?

On a side note, just paid a visit to the Houston Zoo and their aquarium is primo. Lots of reef tanks, but no hard corals.. softies galore though, and tangs everywhere. One tank had a beautiful school of butterflies that kept rolling around. They also had (my personal favorite by far) a leafy sea dragon. Next time Im bringing my camera..

[CD]

Well, we now have the same problem.
A friend brought Wendy and I a hippo yesterday. This is a very high strung fish. To make matters worse, I already have an established yellow that is roughly twice the size of the hippo. The hippo was very stressed during the drip acclimation (came in a bag with water sg at .030)
and continued acting very strange and having difficulty swimming after dripping all day.
We thought that the best thing we could do was to get it into the display a little ahead of time (to hide and relax) since my qt/hospital is still in hyposalinity mode with the brooklynella clownfish. Today the hippo finally seems to be in control of the swimming capabilities- we were very concerned with that issue.
Anyway, the yellow has been slashing at the hippo all day and the ick is starting to show up. The good news is after being harrassed all day, the hippo finally stood up for itself, went after the yellow when the yellow was displaying, and now the yellow seems to be losing the constant aggressive tendencies. Hopefully it will stay this way.
Glad to hear your fish is doing well and let us know how it's doing.

Chris

On a side note- the fairy wrasse and hippo seem to be hanging out and enjoying each others company so maybe that will help the stress level.

[NaCl_H2O]

Im also wondering about the possibility of getting a yellow tang. I keep reading conflicting arguements about that - some folks say its better to keep tangs in pairs or schools, than alone.

I have a Hippo, Yellow, and Sailfin together in my 140g; and Powder Blue, Yellow, Foxface, and Yellow Eye in my 215g - all play nice together. If you add a tang to an established tank, add two or more at the same time. I tried this last time, and had absolutely ZERO fighting or stress!

[Tim Marvin]

I have always kept a variety of tangs together, and they alweays fight for a day or two when first put in. I have never had them kill each other though so I wouldn't worry too much, as long as you have a little room for them to hide from each other if they need to you should be fine. Note "should be fine".

[CD]

thedraven,

Hope your tang is still doing well.
The ick never really happened on our hippo. Had only a few spots and they are gone already.
Our yellow tang better be prepared because this hippo is already showing signs of not putting up with any more b.s. .
Everyone seems to be coexisting pretty well now. :D