something is wrong with my lion fish's mouth

[eleyan]

I have a 5" long volatin lion. I've had him for a couple of months now, and he has been eating frozen food ever since I got him. The past couple of days he has not been eating well. He looks healthy, and comes to the surface when I feed, but he is not catching the food as before. At first I thought that the other fish are getting the food before he gets a chance (all large aggressive fish: lunar wrasse, coral grouper, niger, nasso, rabbit). I was able to distract them long enough to get several pieces of food right in front of the lion, but it seems that he is having trouble catching the food. He can't open his mouth as much as he used to. He tries to eat, but he misses the food. I've been trying to feed him for the past three days, and he was only able to catch a 1/4 piece of shrimp today (he used to be able to eat the whole thing). I noticed he had a couple of torn fins, I suspect from fighting with the grouper. I wonder if he injured his jaw that way too. I also noticed his horns are gone, done to stubs now. I thing from fighting, but I'm not sure. I've heard of lion fish getting lock jaw, but I though it was in the open position. Any thoughts?

[Reef69]

IMO, if he would have fought with the grouper...the grouper would be dead..the first thing lions do is spike up their..umm..spikes..and stab..they are qite powerful and fast...also, you might want to throw a few goupies or ghost shrimp.he wont resit them..good luck..

[C.Mydas]

I second the idea of throwing in some gut-packed live ghost shrimps.

[Ram_Puppy]

from what i have read researching for a lionfish tank, dislocating or breaking a jaw either from fighting or bumping into somethinghard (like tank glass) is not uncommon. reccomendations from wetwebmedia (bob fenner) are to feed small live foods, even live brine, in time, it it can heal, it will. If it can't, then sadly you know the answer. But by no means give up hope. Just try to keep food going in that mouth.

[eleyan]

The grouper is really mean, and clumsy. I've already lost a rabit fish because if him. He was cut up badly, and didn't make it. every so often, I see scars on the other fish too. I'm not sure if he is attaking them directly, or if they are running into the live rock as he is chasing them. I do see the lion fish flare up when ever the other fish get close. He used to charge at them including the gouper if they got too close, but recently he flares up and gets low to the ground or next to the glass. I probably have to devide the tank to keep the lion away from the other fish so he can eat.

[mathias]

I see this a lot on oscars as well... I don't know if the lion fish tries to move rocks or things around with his mouth.

[Instar]

We had a cold front blow in and he has habits like a bass. They can feel the pressure change and to react to it. If you give him something nourishing now and then for vitamins (like a live fish or live vitamin loaded shrimp of some size), he should be fine. Frozen (cooked?) shrimp is not likely to do it forever and by itself. He is also not small so he will not keep the extra long flowing head spines like when he was a juvi. I used to feed mine live fresh caught mullet from a marina in the gulf. That was fun. Its too much work for him to eat enough little frozen krill to make it worth the effort now as he is getting a much larger gut than when he was a baby. They don't have to eat every day when they take big-gulp meals like a snake. Thats the kind of digestive system they have. If you do ever use a good sized live shrimp, break off the shrimp's sharp head spike first.

[Instar]

What is the blue plastic thing in there? And what size is that tank - 135? These sound like fish that need lots more room than something like a 72 bow. If they get too large for the tank size or swimming space (water column vs rock displacement in large tank) and number of fish, they will quit eating and die on you. The lunar wrasse, niger, nasso and lion need lots of room when they get good size.

[eleyan]

Update: he had a couple of more peices of shrimp, squid and silversides today. I had to make them small enough for him to be able to catch.

Larry, he is in a 135G which is my FOWLR tank. The 72G is my reef tank. The blue plastic thing in the photo is the feeding clip that fell to the bottom.

[Instar]

I think you should give up the squid. I assume you thaw it before feeding? Normally a lion would eat fish, not squid or octopus. If thats a recent pic, he looks healthy. Water is kept changed and filtered? The 135 brick is how long? His belly looks fat in the picture. It takes some time for him to digest food. If he is fat, he's working on it and may just not be hungry at the moment.

[eleyan]

Larry, the photo is a couple of days old, but he still looks the same. Actually, the split in his fin is already healed now (that was another reason I thought he was fighting). The 135 is 72"x18"x25". I have a 30G fuge and tidepool II sump + a small DAS with siveral powerheads. The water quality is good. I've been mixing up the feedings between silver sides, krill and a frozen sea food mix from HEB with silcon and garlic. I need to get the smaller silver sides next time.

[Instar]

It may just be a factor of the frozen foods. Selcon is quite rich in fats. As far as garlic goes, its really a feeding stimulant for finicky fish more than anything else, but I doubt it really hits the lions target stimulation. He would go more for movement and vibration rather than scent. Then think about it...garlic has a smell and taste. Too much of anything is never a good thing, for you or for fish. I would try less additives at least one time and see. If that works, then again. You can always go back to the additives. Trouble is, you can't tell if there is too much of a good thing there or if there are traces of other chemicals that are less valued than the fats. A build up of anything beneficial will reverse the action and act against you. The shrimp and krill can wick up a lot of selcon under the carapace. Can you get a picture more of his belly underside and underside of his mouth?

[eleyan]

Well, A week after my original post, he started eating again. I had to switch to krill and he was able to open his mouth wide enough for that. He was eating great for the past 3 weeks. But a couple of days ago, he came up to eat and went for one of the krill, but it looked like he was not able to open his mouth. He started shaking his head side to side trying to pop his mouth open, but then gave up and went to the corner. I tryied again last night, and the same thing happened. I hope he can pop his mouth open again like last time. Is this normal?

[Instar]

No. If the krill is large and the lion is small, make sure you break the spike off the head of the shrimp first. Normally they do best on live foods such as mollies and guppies. If he is getting stabbed inside his mouth or stung by something and getting a sore, it could affect his jaw snap but, without trying a living guppy to trigger is strike, he may just not be able to eat sometimes because it just doesn't move right for him. Shaking sounds like he is trying to shed something thats floating around in the water and getting stuck on his head or eyes. Do you have any tube anemones of similar in there?