MH Lighting -- What/Where to buy?

[sharkie]

If I wanted to get a MH lighting system, does anybody have any suggestions on what to buy and where to buy it?

For tank parameters, let's say it is for a 45 gallon breeder tank, and I wanted to keep clams and anemones.

I am open to any kind of setup, but want to get the most bang for my buck.

MH is a whole new area for me, and I would also appreciate any links explaining the different options...

Thanks!

chiu

[GaryP]

250 watt 10K MH. You'll need some actinic VHO or PC bulbs to get color balance and provide the 420 nm light they will need.

Gary

[sharkie]

Thanks for the quick reply. Should I just buy this as a complete hood? Or should I avoid hoods?

chiu

[matt]

It kind of depends on your set up, like do you have a canopy, are you willing to make one, or do you want an open top tank? That's the first question you need to answer. The least expensive way to get lots of light over this tank would be to get a single 400W "DIY" set up from hellolights, and a single XM10k bulb. I think you could do that for about $150, but then you would need to build some sort of housing for it, maybe a canopy. As far as having enough intensity for tridacna clams, you'd be set. Keeping host anemones has it's own challenges; probably you've read about that. You could supplement with some PC or vho actinic tubes, but that would add a lot to the cost.

As far as an open top tank goes, you'd want to look at a pendent; if you're only going to use one, I'd probably stay away from the DE mini-pendents. They tend to throw a more focused, smaller light spread; great intensity, but you might have issues getting the light to the entire tank. But, you can buy mogule base pendents; that would work great and a single 400W unit, probably about $300, would do the trick. The advantage with this, that you really pay for, is that no enclosure is needed, you just hang it over the tank and plug it in.

[sharkie]

Thanks Matt.

Right now, the tank does not have a canopy, and I am probably not interested in building one. It just has a glass lid with flourescent lighting. It is currently a growout tank for my africans.

I'll take a look at what mogule base pendents are. If I add a pendent, over the top of an open top tank, how would I go about adding some PC or VHO lighting? Or would I not need it?

Sorry for all the questions, it seems there is a lot to this. :)


chiu

[matt]

250 watt 10K MH. You'll need some actinic VHO or PC bulbs to get color balance and provide the 420 nm light they will need.

Gary

Sorry Gary, but I still would like to know where you're getting the info to make the statement that corals, clams, or anemones NEED actinic lights to survive or even thrive. There are MANY very successful reef aquariums that do not have this. And are you sure that mh lights do not provide light at the "magic" wavelength of 420nm?

[matt]

Thanks Matt.

If I add a pendent, over the top of an open top tank, how would I go about adding some PC or VHO lighting? Or would I not need it?

Sorry for all the questions, it seems there is a lot to this. :)


chiu

Yeah, there's a lot, all right. A lot of opinions and ideas, that's for sure. The only thing we absolutely know (for now, anyway!!) is that photosynthetic marine animals need lots of light somewhat analogous to sunlight to survive in aquariums. However, the properties of sunlight drastically change as it penetrates water, sooo.....

The short answer is your animals probably don't need vho actinic or PC "actinic" lights to do well; aquarists typically use this light to adjust the color of their tank so that it more closely resembles light in some depth of water. This is the color balance Gary's talking about. And, using a pendent, it is difficult to add this type of light. You need other free-standing fixtures to house the tubes. A canopy that covers your entire tank can hold both. But, there's more; canopies will significantly add to the heat in a tank; especially one this small. I'd think open top, 400W, maybe one of the new "14k" bulbs that everyone's raving about.

On my old 45 I had a big hood that I made and hung over the tank. It held 2 175W bulbs with homemade reflectors and ushio 10k bulbs. The tank was very well lit and successful with clams, lots of stony corals, etc.

[GaryP]

Matt,

I'll have to do some looking and get back to you on the 420 nm question. I'm a little short on time today.

I know I've read it somewhere. Larry, jump in here. We have talked about this. I know one thing, a 10K without actinic isn't going to give very good color in the greens, blues, and purples.

There are some composite pendants out there that have MH and actinics.

Gary

[JimD]

250 watt 10K MH. You'll need some actinic VHO or PC bulbs to get color balance and provide the 420 nm light they will need.

Gary

Sorry Gary, but I still would like to know where you're getting the info to make the statement that corals, clams, or anemones NEED actinic lights to survive or even thrive. There are MANY very successful reef aquariums that do not have this. And are you sure that mh lights do not provide light at the "magic" wavelength of 420nm?

www.reefs.org/library/article/actinic_lighting.html

Pay special attention to Eric Bornemans entries...

[Tim Marvin]

250w DE halides 10K with actinic T-5's.

[astrong]

Actinics are frequently used for color rendering for the human eye. Its true that corals need a lot of 420 and 680 but most MH's provide enough to not need supplementation. The problem these days is that most "actinics" aren't actinic, they're blue, not the violet corals need. I like using them because they look good but they are not necessary.
Energy Savers has a new 150W DE + PC actinic + moonlight for really cheap. I would look at those, I think for your tank they would be a good mix of economics and product, without being overkill. I will always give Giesemann props but they aren't cheap (understatement,) PFO makes a good pendant but its almost as high as Giesemann for less quality. Sunlight Supply makes a 150 pendant thats nice. Plus the "ReefOptix" scored really well on Sanjay's most recent test. Also not cheap. There are as many products out there as opinions, so good luck with your adventures,

And remember, this is the fun part. Once the tank is set up, all that's left to do is pay the electrical bill...

[Instar]

Ok, GaryP, you don't want to get me started on lighting, do you? If you study the tank of the months for years past on RC, look at all the articles and read all the posts, a go see what others are doing, you will find 2 things. 1 - Almost all of the tank of the month awards have 10K and 420nm (the violet one) actinic in the ratio of 2 or 3 actinic to 1 10K and look fantastic. 2. People create variations on the theme and with too much variation you will notice their tank colors are horrible and they have tons of troubles. Their clams and zoo colors are flat to brown, even the ultra grade ones and they don't get tank of the month awards. RE: the lfs's around town. They have blue crocea clams and they are all uglier than dirt if you ask me. Check the lights and none of them have this combination. So, are their clams second rate or are their lights wrong?
Next observation is on the bill. 400 watts in a single light gets you into totally another ball game in heat and expense. I would use 250w and forget about 400. Not because a lot of light is not great, but, because you can add 2 250s if you just have to have that much light and still not get into the same scale as a 400. 400's are very hot and heat drives the bill up even more because it makes the wires hot creating resistance (means more $$ for the power company) and you must have more fans to keep it cool. A breeder tank is 36 inches long and very shallow as tanks go, and with the right reflector pendant you can light it with a single bulb. I've seen a couple tanks with DE's in the 14K range without actinics that had pretty good colors, but they would improve a lot with actinics. I've seen the RBTA anemones under these and their tentacles are all fat, faded and blunted like an anemone thats been in captivity a long time and not maintaining its true shape or growth pattern. The ballast brand, bulb brand and combination all are different so far as results go. There will almost always be a wave length missing that will flatten out one of your favorite blue colors and make it dissappear. The only way to avoid that is to combine different bulbs. So far as actinics go, the cheapest route is VHO and the results are great. People again have reinvented the wheel, but it just costs more to do the same thing with pc's or T-5's. Useable bulb life on a reef doesn't last any longer (as advertised) and they cost a lot more than the VHO's to replace. This does not mean they are not good, they do provide a lot of light in a very small bulb and from what I see, if they are true 03 (420nm) actinic, they work great. Some are just blue lights at about 460nm or above. You have to check the brand because the phosphor combinations are pattened and some companies can not make the 420nm bulbs. Either way, they are all marketed as true actinic even when they are not. If you had enough space and money for a combination of 420 and 460 to suppliment a halide, it looks fantastic and very under water. But, without space or the extra cash, the 420 is what you need for the best color pop. Think about the best meetings with the most fantastic colored reefs we've seen in MAAST. Think about where and who does the most frequent fragging. Those all have or had the 420nm actinics and 10K lights in at least 2 to 1 if not 4 to 1 ratio. Some were VHO, some PC's, and a few T-5's combined with MH of either 250w or 400w.

[GaryP]

JimD,

Thanks for the link. I stashed that one away. Wow, I thought we got into some heated debates around here. That's a heated debates with some heavy weights like Bornemann thrown into the mix.

I guess the question comes down to whether 420 nm light is required for coral growth or aesthetics. The answer from what I read is both, but its not necessary. On the other hand, if it was only about growth we'd all be running Iwasaki 65K.

Tim, I stand corrected.

Gary