Spanish Dancer nudibranch

[Crab Rangoon]

I got in all (or most) of my cleaner crew and oddities, that aren't fish, or corals, yesterday. Some slugs, snails, different shrimp, crabs, etc; but of them all, I must say that my medium Spanish Dancer is the coolest :D It's about 4-6" depending on how much it stretches out, so basically the dimentions of your avg hot dog bun. Cool thing about this guy (or girl) is that it actually does swim in my tank, as larger slugs are known to do in nature. The edges of its body are rolled/turned up and pulled towords itself as it trudges about, but then it'll climb up a rock, stretch out into the water, and unroll its sides (like wings) and begin bucking till it gets some lift-off. It's rather entertaining and interesting. Right now the tanks just running off an Emp. 400; but Friday I'll be adding at least one canister filter, which should let it get some more hangtime when it swims around. I'll post pics, and if possible, a video at a later time.

[RobertG]

OK, Do you own River City Aqautics or just work there.. Trying to make sense of it all. Sounds Cool
I have met Carlos there but never have seen you when I go.

Robert

Reason I ask is your Signature..

[Crab Rangoon]

I work there, Carlos is the owner :) I'm there Monday, Friday, & Saturday; have been since the 2nd month of business ;)

[Tim Marvin]

You do know the spanish dancers can grow up to two feet right? Is it in your ten gallon tank? You also know it is a herbivore right? Very cool though!

[MikeDeL]

Arent they toxic too?

[Richard]

http://www.seaslugforum.net/display.cfm?id=8442

[RobertG]

Good thing it is only a 10G. :?

[Reef69]

WAAAY too small of a tank....Im trying to remember what is it that you have jammed in that tank...

[Crab Rangoon]

Psh, not a chance. This is in my 52G :crazy: But it is rather humorous (somewhat) that everybody thinks I have a fully stocked zoo of a 10G tank. But as for the stock of the 10G, theres 4 stoneys, 2 leathers, 1 anemone, 1 perc, 1 goby, 1 blenny, 1 brain, 2 patches of xenia, 1 zoo, a few buttons have popped up, an acro, 1 CB shrimp, 8 snails, 5 micro hermits, 1 em crab, 1 anemone crab; all seemingly thriving :D The tanks got 80w of light on it, 2 powerheads, and 1 HOB filter, and I regularly check the water paremeter and topoff, everything goes well, no need to worry.
Oh, and a # of things from that tank are moving into the 52 tomorrow or Sat.
Tim, yeah, I read up on the size and investigated some other species of nudi that I might be interested in trying to keep sooner or later as well, this one seems really cool though. I catch it flapping around the tank about 5+ times a day currently.

[Instar]

Most nudis are condemed to death in a tank because each species only eats a certain species of target food. Thats even true for lettuce nudibranches as few can keep them alive more than a couple months. Common hair algae won't do it, as everyone has found out who tries to keep them. The reason they last so long in a tank is that they take good care of the chromoplasts they pick up in the wild. But, only for a couple months. Unless you find the correct species of sponge for your spanish dancer, its history has already been charted by the fact it was captured and in a tank. If you can't do it and you work in the lfs, what do you tell customers?

[Reef69]

..yep.

[thedraven]

Heres some info on your spanish dancer I found on another popular website. Scary stuff..

"Ultra-sensitive to alkalinity changes, and will be venomous if it dies. It requires an expert reef keeper. It lives symbiotically with the Periclimenes imperator that actually eats its. These snails are empowered with skin glands that produce potent poisons; some species make sulfuric acid, others non-acidic noxious substances. There are celebrated species that use the cnidocysts (stingingcells, nematocysts) they reprocess from eating stinging-celled animals. Others have spicules embedded in their mantle. With their sudden and mysterious death, this stuff ends up in your water. To reduce the potential for disaster you need good chemical filtration with adequate circulation, regular partial water changes and a watchful eye on what you have and where it's at in your system.

To emphasize the above point I like to recount my experience with a certain Spanish dancer, a swimming nudibranch. That's right, some of these snails are truly butterflies of the sea; in constant motion. Once at a Sears-Roebucks in the early seventies, when they were in the live pet business, we had a tank that whatever fish we put in, it would become shy and perish within a few days. We tried all the usual; massive water changes, dumping the tank completely, even throwing away the gravel, including the decor, all to no avail. Enough study and discussion led us finally to realize that the Spanish Dancer (swimming nudibranch) that had been in the tank had bumped up against the tank walls depositing stinging cells all over. These were zapping and debilitating everything they came in contact with."

I think of all the photos Ive seen of beautiful nudis, especially the purple, and used to wonder why nobody attempts to keep them. :shock:

[Instar]

Spanish Dancer is a trade or common name and really isn't very useful here as we are all referring to different species.
Some eat anemones and others sponges. The sponge eaters will not sting per say, althought they can produce toxic deposits that harm fish. Unless you have the exact target food, nudis will not last long.

[Tim Marvin]

I've only had a couple nudis and they were not dancers. All have died.

[Reef69]

yeah, some animals should be left alone in the reef..

[Crab Rangoon]

Unless you find the correct species of sponge for your spanish dancer, its history has already been charted by the fact it was captured and in a tank. If you can't do it and you work in the lfs, what do you tell customers?

I never claimed I could keep a nudibranch in captivity any better than anybody else, and I never said it would surely live out a full life in my tank. I've yet to have suggested a seaslug to a single customer, other than they are a nice visual addition to the tank, and answered any questions anybody had based upon the experience I had with my purple. And finally, as there seems to be some assumptions against this, we don't retail these things, except for the purple sea slug if it's been requested by customers. My lettuce, purples, and Spanish Dancer were all purchased by me via special order.
I really wish I had some more activity with this forum/club other than defending myself most of the time, when there's really nothing wrong :roll:

[Reef69]

Honestly...you shouldnt have the site as your only source of information, alot of us have read tons of books before being members of this site..I know i did...you should also know there are many species of animals that are impossible to keep..even some of the most experienced people here told you they are very very hard to keep, you seem to be pretty new to this saltwater deal, its ok to make mistakes..but its not cool to keep an animal that is surely going to die. in all honesty, your 10 gal. seems crowded, clownfish need at least 20 gallon tanks to be happy...now, im am not on the offensive here, just saying that you should read and reconcider before buying a particular specimen..you have made one of the biggest mistakes you can do in saltwater, and thats rush and buy everything youve ever wanted without thinking of the animal's well being..good luck

[MikeDeL]

Randy, no one on this site is out to get you. They are simply trying to help. They are pointing out your mistake so you can learn from it. I dont think a single person here would want you to fail. Everyone is here to help each other. We all make mistakes. I had a teacher tell me once "If you mess up and dont learn anything its a mistake. If you mess up and learn something from it, its a learning experience." I really hope you dont think anyone is trying to be mean. Everyone wants to help. I know sometimes it really sucks reading some of the things people are telling you. Ive been in that boat, and I will probably be there again. Just realise they are giving you advice not bashing you.


Hope there are no hard feelings.


Mike

[Crab Rangoon]

You've got to be kidding me :o I haven't used this site for much information (not that info isn't here, plenty of friendly members with tons of knowledge on tap! I've gotten plenty of good tips and info from the people, but not from posting), I've gotten plenty opinions, and given my share of them, but I haven't really "obtained much info" from the forums here. I may have been a regular when I first joined up, but I cannot keep up with them now, much less even get to a computer daily. I've used some other sites for some info every now and then, but mostly its in books. While having tech-talk seems best with other members in person, so I can get a better understanding of different equipment, I have still stuck mainly to the books for the species facts. Anyhow, I've seen plenty more crowded nano's that are largely successful, and I've been keeping fish for a few years, and haven't yet encountered any problems other than one single count of aggression in my keeping of marine life so far. I do a good bit of cramming and hard thinking before I decide to obtain any species of fish or coral, even hermits (making sure to get hte least aggressive if possible, for the sake of my snails and such). I'd rate this on the same scale, but probably not as cruel IMHO, as somebody buying a Mandarin just because its cute, though they have a good chance of not being able to support its diet. This thread might as well have been "I found a cool mystery anemone!" and have you jump on me for getting excited about Aptasia :\ Hopefully I dont need to reply to this thread again, because it's just making me sound like I'm ranting/arguing, when I'd rather not seem that type. I haven't any hard feelings either, but I'd really rather get past the whole "that guy with the San Diego Zoo packed in his 10Gallon" thing, which hasn't seemed to let up, for some.

[Instar]

clownfish need at least 20 gallon tanks

Now that entirely depends on the species and if you are talking about a mated pair or not. At least half of them will not defend an area that large. The exceptions are derived from the pet clowns that have lived alone for a year, thinking they own the tank and the tank keeper and then someone drops in a delicate little fish that is not compatable to see it killed by the clown.

As for my point, I'd like it if you do or have figured out exactly what that particular dancer eats, its genus and species and would share it with us. The lettuce slugs need Bryopsis or one other particularly odd algae (and even this may vary by sub species) to survive long term. Do you know exactly what the purples need? I'd like to know so I can keep some of those as well but don't know the species or type herb they need. Personally I don't see a problem with the 10 gallon tank. If something in snail and crab land looks crowded, you have many gallons of tanks to move it to until another tank is ready, so no sweat there. Maybe not the same issue for others that don't have an lfs at their easy disposal.

[thedraven]

Hey man, calm down. These guys are right, were only trying to help, so theres no need to be defensive.

Personally I think its really cool that you got a spanish dancer, I think theyre gorgeous creatures and I wish you luck with it. It interested me enough to look it up, and I found the info that I posted on another popular website. I dont know that all of it was species specific, but it was in the Spanish Nudi's description. Just thought you might like to check it out (it wasnt to heckle you or anything). Chilly down. ;)