I need help!

[XXX]

I have no idea why my fish keep dying. They show absolutely no signs of stress or anything. They are eating well the day before (aggressively) and the next morning they're dead. These are established fish. 4 Chromis - 1 Algea Blenny - My wife is going to flip if she finds out her Algea Blenny is dead.

55G - FOWLR
PH - 8.0
Ammonia -0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 5 ppm
Water Temp - 73
Salinity - 1.023
60lb of Live Rock
Skimmer and 10% water chages every two weeks

The only thing different I've been doing is feeding my Dardanus Megistos - Red Hairy Legged Hermit Crab - Fresh shrimp pieces uncooked. Is this the problem.

[Ram_Puppy]

How long have you had the fish? First thing that comes to mind is Acclimation shock, second thing that comes to mind, is a pathogen in your tank, Since your water perameters seem to be in order for the most part, though ideally nitrate should be pegged at zero.. is the tank new? still cycling?

You do realize the hermit is probably going to make a snack of whatever it can get it's claws on.

Do you practice quarantine procedures when you get a new fish/coral/invert, and have you added anything recently?

[XXX]

I've had the tank up and running for almost one year to the day. The fish, I've had them for about a month. Like I said they seemed to have been doing well. Yeah, I know my nitrates are high, I'm really trying to work on that. The hermit Crab was my first suspect, but he won't even touch the dead fish. He seems quite content on feasting on the shrimp and really never bothers anyone. The dead fish look like they will start swimming at any moment, absolutley no marks, odd. Now the quarantine I don't do, whats the best procedure for that. They most recent edition I have is a hawkeye goby, but he's doing the best of all of them. Everything in the tank except for the live rock and sand, I've gottn from Fin-Addict. Thanks for all your help.

[Polkster13]

The tank temp is what caught my eye. That should be raised to around 78 degrees. I actually keep mine in the 82 degree range. Now on a saltwater tank you want to change things very slowly otherwise you will end up with a tank full of dead fish. Try and raise the temp very slowly over the next couple of days, not all at once. Also, remember that as the temp goes up the O2 level will drop so make sure that you have some sort of surface agitation to break the surface tension of the water which will will allow for the exchange of gases in your tank (CO2 out and O2 in). Using a powerhead and directing the flow towards the surface will help greatly in gas exchange.

You might also want to drop your salinty down to 1.021 as the higher the salinty the harder the fish has to work to get rid of the salt buildup in their system. Also, as you lose water due to evaporation, the salinty will increase until you add fresh water to top off the tank.

[JimD]

WOW! 73??? Thats 10 degrees below the norm! Get that temp up to 80-83 over the course of 24 hours asap! Also, doyou run your skimmer 24/7? Sounds like O2 depletion to me...

[Ram_Puppy]

man, i totally overlooked temp, I thought the 3 was an 8 I guess... perhaps I shouldn't try helping at the end of a 13 hour shift! :)

[RobertG]

I agree with the tempature being to low. Also this PH reading what time a day is the reading from. If it is 8.0 at the end of the day you could be burning the gills out at night. Take a reading in the evening & one in the morning. Overall the fish could be stressed to much to handle the swings. Cold too... I would add some buffer to get the ph up.

Do this slowly, all the changes will be fine if you do them patiently.

[Bigreefer]

Do you use tap water for your water change? Not sure why but some people get bouts of really bad tap water.

I'd run a high quality carbon just to eliminate any chemicals in the water.

Jason

[XXX]

I am so friggin ignorant. I try and read as much as I can and there is so much conflicting info out there (what I'm told and what I read). Ok, I need to raise the Temp gradually, can do. I've been using RO water, Ok there. Now, am I wrong to run my Skimmer 24/7 I was told it was OK. Surface aggitaition is good. I'll recheck the PH tonight and once again in the morning and bring down the salinity level. Thank You so much for clearing somethings up for me. If I'm missing anything, please remind me. Thanks - Alex

[don-n-sa]

just curios...how is it your temp is that low anyway? do you have a chiller? what temp do you keep the room where your tank is?

some fish can adapt to lower temperatures but if it is done gradually. How do you acclimate your fish and how long does it take? your parameters seem fine 5ppm nitrates is great for a fowlr...shoot some fowlrs have 75ppm+!!!! with no problems.

[Ed]

The temp needs to come up for sure. That should help. Running your skimmer 24/7 is fine. Personally, I would leave the salinity alone. 1.023 is fine. Might take a water sample to the LFS and have them double check it (in case one or more of the reagents in your test kit is bad). Hang in there and let us know how things progress.

-Ed

[z28pwr]

There are quite a few problems in your tank, first off Try to keep the PH at around 8.3 then keep the temp at about 78 and I would lower the Salinity in the water to 1.021, also what are you using to measure salinity, since the plastic Hydro's are normally off by 2-4 points.

[Polkster13]

Also be aware that PH is affected by temperture. First get the tank temp up to around 78 degrees. Make sure you have an accurate temp gauge. Once that has stabllized, then check your salinity. I use a floating hydrometer that has a built in temp gauge that I float in the water made of glass. This is much more accurate than the little plastic boxes with a plastic float needle. You need to get all three (PH, temp, salinity) in line, but try to do it one at a time starting with the tank temp. If you change too many things all at once, you will stress your fish out even more and you may end up losing everything. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[JimD]

I wasnt suggesting that runnng your skimmer 24/7 was bad, its good, If you were NOT running it 24/7 there could be low oxygen issues causing the fish to suffocate... Make sure youre clear on this. And, 78 degrees is still to low for tropical conditions, 79-83 is where it should be.,,, imo...

[brewercm]

I agree with Jim D on the temp. I always kept mine between 80-82 and everything went fine.
Good luck, I know it can get frustrating.

[Reef69]

Temperature up..I keep my tanks at 78 steady day and night..(yes, ive checked them at 3 am..lol)..salinity, 1.025, most of the places where the fish come from, salinity is at .25..your PH should be steady 8.3,..a skimmer should be running all the time..also, I agree with jenn, keep a powerhead shooting at the surface, that will keep your PH steady..IMO

[Instar]

Ok, to summarize all this, there is a problem with anyone who suggests raising the pH in a FOWLR. Test your fresh mixed salt, thats what the pH will be - period. The test methods from person to person are not that accurate and you will make yourself crazy trying to accomplish a pH of 8.3 if your test method just won't go there with the brand of salt you use. I used to take that adice and killed a lot of stuff trying. After I quit trying, I came to the conclusion the guys who constantly want to mess with buffers and pH are nuts. Then my stuff stopped dying. I never even test pH anymore, do regular water changes and thats it. A FOWLR does not ever need to worry about having a pH of 8.3 - not ever. 8.0 is fine anytime so long as its not 7.3 in the morning, but, that would be an indicator, not a disaster. What you describe sounds like toxic shock, salinity shock, bad food, or oxygen depletion. Pumps should run all the time as should the skimmer in a tank of 1 year. But, with all the possibilities for the problem you have, we need more data than whats here. You have to use RO water, first of all. So, give us a break down of food, lights, salt brand, top off methods, water change frequency, type of pumps, unusual things? That hermit is a killer by the way. He eats shrimp when you feed him and kills at night while you're sleeping. Guarenteed! You can take that to the bank. Thats what they do, its a sport for one thats fed shrimp. He doesn't eat them because you feed him shrimp and he likes that, but, he still has the habit and ability to kill. Told that to a guy who had large and rare $400 dollar puffer once. He didn't believe it till the puffer was dead. Take the crab back to Corpus where it belongs or face it off with a mantis if you have a big mantis to feed. BTW, a large hermit doesn't have to leave a mark to kill. They are very good at it.

Temp is a little low, but, thats not the killer for the kind of fish you describe unless you just drop them into it outta the bag or have huge swings because there is a busted heater. Looks like a glass heater? Its not cracked, is it? Should not be full of water. Is it a submergable heater? If so, the thermostat won't work right unless its submerged. If its not submergable, then look for salt creep around the top. A short can put current in the tank and mess the fish up. But, my bet is on the crab. He is the real winner here with the data you supplied so far. He belongs in the dangerous predator category actually, and not in a normal FOWLER. Look at his size and then look at the fish size. Easy for him.

[Instar]

And there is one other killer of fish that hide in holes at night. A club anemone. They are cave dwellers, spending their entire lives in absolute darkness. The tentacles are not long, but it only takes a brush and its the brush of death for the type fish you describe. They too, don't leave a mark. Since your tank is a year old, thats more than enough for one to regrow from the foot in a live rock hole. They are only visible at night normally, under a rock where its impossible to see them. You have to do a complete check at around 3 in the morning, in the middle of the darkest part of the night for your tank. And use a big flash light, check the whole tank pretty fast case they can with draw in a half minute if disturbed by the light. Probably not it in your case cause you have a huge hermit, but, you never know.

[matt]

Temperature up..I keep my tanks at 78 steady day and night..(yes, ive checked them at 3 am..lol)..salinity, 1.025, most of the places where the fish come from, salinity is at .25..your PH should be steady 8.3,..a skimmer should be running all the time..also, I agree with jenn, keep a powerhead shooting at the surface, that will keep your PH steady..IMO

I disagree with these comments about ph; in any saltwater tank where there is some photosynthesis taking place, ph will swing around with the light cycle. You really need to understand the chemical dynamic that affects ph in a reef tank; mostly it has to do with O2 levels vs. CO2 levels in the water, and calcium and carbonate levels. There's a good description of the basic reaction chain in the book that I always recommend to beginning reef keepers, Ron Shimek's "The Coral Reef Aquarium." Basically, as animals respire, they take O2 from the water and add CO2, which drops the ph. BUT, as photosynthetic animals do their thing, they remove CO2 and add O2, which tends to push the ph up. However, in this process, they also remove Ca and carbonate, which, when depleted, will push the ph back down. This is why, even in a fish only tank, you need to measure and maintain Ca and Alk (carbonate) levels. Even without corals, algae on the liverock will deplete your Ca and CO3. It wouldn't surpise me to find that your Ca and Alk levels are off, which affects fish health somewhat. You might solve this issue, and directly address the ph, by dripping kalkwasser at night. BTW, don't bother adjusting your salinity until your tank temp is normal, around 80F. Specific gravity changes with temp at the same salinity. Also, buy or borrow either a refractometer or a lab quality glass hydrometer; the plastic swing arm ones are innacurate. Also, if you really want to know your ph, you'll need a decent ph probe and some calibration fluid. The good news is, if your temp, salinity, water movement, and Ca/CO3 levels are all good, chances are you won't have a ph problem unless there are other obvious issues, like huge algae fronds growing everywhere.

But, there are lots of things that could be killing your fish, including starvation for the blenny. I don;t really know what kind of fish an "algae blenny" is, but if its natural diet is algae, I don;t see much for it to eat in your photo. Fish parasites are REALLY common; almost every reefkeeper has had bouts with them. It kind of sounds like there are lots of things you can work on in your tank to pass the time while you leave it fishless for a month to six weeks; this will eliminate any parasites in the tank. Smile!

[Instar]

Good advice Matt, the calcium could be off after a year with live rock. But, the fish were eating, healthy, according to him and with a pH of 8.0, if thats what it really is, then the alkalinity is not far off from what it should be enough to kill a fish overnight. Nothing he mentioned so far is enough to kill a fish overnight thats aggressively eating except for that monster hermit. You can see it in the picture, its huge!

[Reef69]

well..some of it must be true..lol..seems to be working for me, but like Matt said, there can be lots of different things other than what has being said...so, changing your temp should be a good start...

[Richard]

I would be interested to know what your alkalinity is. If it is up around 9 dkh (~ 3 meq/l) and your daytime ph is only 8 then you have somewhat elevated CO2 levels. While interesting to talk about, I don't think this has anything to do with your fish losses.

If I read your post correctly you have lost...

1 algae blenny (lawnmower blenny I assume) after having him about a month - this is about right on schedule for him to starve to death. They are tough to keep without plenty of filamentous algae for them to feed on.

4 Green Chromis - contrary to what is often said about them, I have found chromis to be a rather high loss fish. They are dirt cheap and collectors/wholesalers often pack them into bags to save on shipping and keep them cheap. So they can suffer from a variety of stress related maladies. Probably because of the way they are handled/shipped they are prone to a parasitic protozoan called uronema. Uronema is too small to be seen with the naked eye, penetrates through the tissue and attacks vital organs causing sudden death. There is no effective treatment for uronema and it can only be positively identified with a microscope.

So what am I telling you? If these are the extent of the losses you have had, I would not consider that abnormal for those species. I also do not consider a fish "established" after only having them about a month. It could have been only 5 weeks or so since they were taken out of the ocean, shipped thousands of miles to a wholesaler, tanked & then rebagged and shipped to the retailer. All the while being tossed around by the air cargo guys - there's a reason the styrofoam shipping boxes are usually busted. Then finally the fish is tanked again at the LFS, then bagged again and sent home with you. To be honest, I'm impressed any fish can live through it all.

That hairy crab is cool...but will take out small fish if he gets a chance.

[XXX]

Hey, Richard thanks for the Hairy Hermit crab. Yeah, I know he may be the killer, but I can get myself to get rid of him. He'll be getting his own tank soon. The Temp is back up to 78 degrees. No further loss so far. I'm working on getting full test results, I'll try and keep everyone informed. Thanks all, for all the advice and knowledge.