Sump system critique please

[::pete::]

Looks good .. have you decided on the size?

[captexas]

Josh - two things I noticed. One is it is good to have a large return/evaporation section like you have there. That is the one thing that is bad with my sump is that the last chamber is so small that with the evaporation in my tank, the top off sensor and pump are going off all the time. The second thing I noticed that I would question is your fuge is being fed by your skimmer. The purpose of a refugium is to house natural items (macro algae, live rock, live sand) that will help clean the water and keep excess nutrients in check. By feeding already skimmed/filtered water to the fuge, I think you are somewhat defeating this purpose and may limit what will grow in the fuge. Basically limiting the full potential of what a refugium can do. You could just add another bulkhead from the sump to the fuge at the bottom of your drawing where the tank drains into so that water will flow across into the fuge naturally. You can still have the skimmer intake at that end and then place the skimmer output at the far end of the sump, combining with the fuge drains before the water goes into the baffle area. I actuall have drain line on my tank come to a Y that is reduced on one end with a ball valve. The main output of the Y drains into my sump area and the reduced output of the Y drains into my refugium area.

Just my 2cents and something for you to think about.

[NaCl_H2O]

I agree w/captexas, tee off one of your returns from the tank with a ball valve and feed it into the Fuge, and feed the skimmer output back into the sump area behind the baffles. Otherwise, maximize the space of your sump area!

Otherwise looks pretty good!

[::pete::]

The skimming before the fuge is what I have always understood to be better as well as a better chance for critters and/or their young to make it back to the tank.

[NaCl_H2O]

The skimming before the fuge is what I have always understood to be better as well as a better chance for critters and/or their young to make it back to the tank.

Good point, so ...

Tank return to Sump (Behind ****)
Return tee'ed off to feed fuge
Skimmer input from sump behind ****
Skimmer return to sump, outside ****, but before baffles (bubbles!)
Fuge return to sump, outside ****, and after baffles (no bubbles!?)

A little more plumbing, but PVC is Cheap!

or ... elevate your fuge above your tank :-D

[NaCl_H2O]

NaCl_H2O, If I do that I'll need to push a lot more water through it or I'll start skimming my 'fuge. I'm getting about 850 gph from the tank and should be pushing about 800 gph (after head and pressure) through the skimmer. I suppose I could upgrade that return pump.

Ah, balancing pumps, ain't it fun! You may want to consider a small pump to go from the sump area to the fuge, with the fuge feeding back to the sump - then your balancing is much less complex. It is really hard to maintain this type of balance, pump output varies over the lifetime of the pump.

[captexas]

As far as I can think of, the skimmer is not what kills all those critters from your fuge. All the skimmer does is mix water with lots of little air bubbles. When I look in my skimmer, I can see mysis shrimp swimming around inside the base where the water is calmer. What kills the critters are the pumps. Depending on how the impeller is designed, it is what scrambles them all up into pieces and shoots them through narrow pipes super fast. Unless your sump and fuge are all positioned above your display tank and the water gravity feeds back to your tank, all the water and all the critters that come from the fuge are going to be scrambled and shot through that cannon of a return pump. Still, some people debate how much pumps really hurt, I think it is all in the impeller design and the pressure that is created by the pump that will affect the little buggers.

[::pete::]

Regardless they will have to go through a pump (if not gravity fed) to get back in the tank so why add to it with the skimmer?

[NaCl_H2O]

Two words - "Gravity Feed"

[matt]

I'd put the skimmer drain and feed in the same compartment, one that has a constant water level.

[r0gu3]

Makes my future sump system plans that I made in MSpaint look like crap. :D

[r0gu3]

I am guessing you are using GIMP for images? If so, I find it easier then Photoshop. I need to get some of the images that I render with my beowulf cluster at school. ;)

[matt]

What happens to the fuge when the skimmer's off? What about relative levels of fuge and pre-dam sump? You know they'll equalize when the power goes out. I'm trying to picture this thing when the system is shut down, or when the skimmer is off, and I can't quite get it in my head. Probably you've figured it all out. Plus, I'm assuming your wall is higher over near the skimmer, right? Other wise the wter would just spill over the whole thing, missing the baffles?

What I don't understand is why you don't just have one tank drain go to the fuge, plumb your skimmer in/out into the same compartment, and you're done? This kind of pump-in-series arrangement seems risky to me. But, I'm a simple man.

[matt]

Okay, so if the skimmer stops, water from the fuge won't drain into the sump back through the skimmer, correct? And the bulkheads connecting the two are high enough so that there wouldn't be alot of draining back into the fuge when the system is off and the sump fills up?

So far, so good. The only issue I then see is that you'll want to set up some arrangement to keep the fuge going in the event you take your skimmer out for cleaning, maintenence, whatever. Since you're going to get one of my skimmers next summer ( :-D right?) you probably won't have to worry about it breaking down...hehe

maybe just have a spare pump to push water to the fuge in that case.

BTW, has anybody been to Alamo to see the 6 footer I made for them just before I left?