Green Water - Need help

[Simon]

Need help with algae bloom. I have had this problen for several months now. The tank is a 55 with a 10 gal sump. I am running a mag 7 and have had an Remora Urchin skimmer running for two weeks and am now running a hangon filter as well. The water parameters are good and I have been doing 10 gal. RO water changes twice a week with very little results. I had a halogen desk lamp running at nights for the sump. I was told to remove the halogen about two weeks ago. No lights in the sump currently. I have calearpa in the sump.
The pics are not current but the main and sump tank are very green. No hair algae or algae on the walls, just the water is green.
Main tank has a BTA , maroon clown, yellow tang, about 6 crabs and 6 snails and about twice as much rock as on the pics.
The tank was set up in February 04.

Any help appreciated.

New to reef keeping,
Simon

[Richard]

A UV sterilizer would quickly clear up the green water. This is addressing the symptom and not the cause though. Can you list your water parameters that you know...ph, alkalinity, phosphate, nitrate, etc.

[Simon]

I will do a test tonight and post it.

[CD]

I was told to remove the halogen about two weeks ago. No lights in the sump currently. I have calearpa in the sump.


Actually, that is a really bad idea IMO. Macroalgae goes asexual with the lights off. We keep our 'fuge lights on 24/7 which seems to be working well for our system...even if you don't want to keep the light on all the time, you can set it up to where your sump light is on while your tank lights are off.
Also, unless you are cleaning that skimmer out every few days, it looks suspiciously free of "gunk". I know you said the pics are not current, but is your skimmer producing?

Wendy

[Simon]

Yes it is. I changed from a Seaclone 150 to a Remora Urchin about 2 weeks ago. Both were producing gunk. I think the current Remora is producing a little more. I empty about a 1/4 inch of dark green gunk per week.

[Instar]

I agree, turn the lights back on for the macro. That macro light isn't the cause and it will help control this for you.
Sand bed is real shallow, maybe a bare bottom? There looks to be no suspension feeders in the tank? In this case, what Richard said and what Josh said. If you have half way decent lighing for the clams, that is. Those baby clams of 1 to 2.5 inches would love that green water. Or you can dump some rotifers in there. That will end the green algae bloom with a natural consumer and start a rotifer bloom. Rotifers are easy to filter or strain out. You would get a lot of them out of that tank and can fresh freeze an enriched rotifer concentrate then in little cubes for those animals that need plankton to eat. Anyone with corals and fine particulate plankton feeders can use those cubes.

Since your tank is new, did you do a complete water change after cycling that rock? Nutrients from the rock will contribute a lot to that bloom.

[Instar]

If your macro is grape or bubble caulerpa, maidens cup or similar, replace all of it with some feather caulerpa or chytomorpha (spelling?) as soon as possible. Once the grape or maidens goes asexual, you need to get it out and toss it on the compost pile in the back yard. I'd toss a lot of it anyway and make the greater majority of my macro something else. Grape/bubble and maidens cup go asexual all the time and will do exactly that to your tank when they are the only macro in there. If there are not enough filter feeders in the rock and sand, it suvives and turns into a bloom sometimes.

It also looks like a power compact on top for lights. Custom Sealife? Half true actinic and half 10K? If so and the bulbs are new, ok. If thats not the combination of lights or if they are old (used purchase), change the bulbs in addition to the above.

[Pacman]

Oops, it was probably my suggestion to turn the lights off. I know Simon and tried to help him with his algae bloom. The problem with the halogen was that it was warming the water a fair amount, to about 82 or so. I suggested getting a higher kelvin power compact instead, but I didn't realize turning it off for a day or two would be so bad. That's what you get for advice from another beginner.

Anyway, I've been supplying the RO water for about the last 5 weeks or so, which tests out fine. Before this Simon was using tap water for water changes and top-offs. With all the water changes we've done I thought there would be some improvement, but it's still very green.

So that's what I know about the situation. Sorry if gave bad advice, still a beginner myself.

Matt

[Pacman]

I also thought the extreme yellow of halogen bulbs could cause algae problems of their own, or was I way off in my thinking? Can they be used for macro algae well enough?

Matt

[NaCl_H2O]

Yes it is. I changed from a Seaclone 150 to a Remora Urchin about 2 weeks ago. Both were producing gunk. I think the current Remora is producing a little more. I empty about a 1/4 inch of dark green gunk per week.

1/4" of skimate per week seems like a VERY small amount given the amount of algae apparently suspended in your water? The picture you posted loks like the skimmer is generating a low volume of bubbles? Have you tried any adjustments (I am not familiar with this skimmer) to increase contact time?

[Ram_Puppy]

I am suprised the urchin isn't sucking that stuff out, My remora pro caused noticble changes in water quality within a day, produced skimate within hours. How high up is the cup? do you have it adjusted to produce a thick skimate (higher?) and what pump are you driving the urchin with, is it one of the Mags or a Remora? you can put a bigger mag pump on it if need be, Misti is running a Mag 7 on her Remora Pro (i have a mag 3 if memory serves)

another way to clean it up, though not as cool as tim's suggestions, would be a Magnum 350 with a micron screen attatched... butt that is a rather expensive option.

[Simon]

I did a water test last night.
ph - 8.4
Amonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0

Joshua, you were right.

I did lower the skimmer tube this weekend and already have about a 1/4". Thats much more than my Seaclone did in a whole week.

The lights are Custom Sealife w/ 130w blue and 130w 10k.

I like the idea of a clam. Any particular clam that would work with my lights?


Thanks so much for the advise everyone. I would really like to see thru my tank again.

Simon
In San Antonio

[NaCl_H2O]

WOW, PH = 8.4 :o

I have a hard time pushing mine to 8.2, much less maintaining > 8.0. Was this an early morning, or late night reading? Have you tried another test kit? Maybe with all the algae, the photosynthesis is driving up the PH?

Experts: Chicken or Egg ... Is high PH contributing to the algae, or is the algae maintaing the high PH?

[Simon]

I did the test at 10:00 pm.
This is the only test kit I have and I received it in Sept.

[NaCl_H2O]

I did the test at 10:00 pm.
This is the only test kit I have and I received it in Sept.

If your light cycle turned off late evening, then a 10:00pm high PH reading is reasonable (high being 8.3!). But then depending on the test kit, you could be +/- .2 or more? What test kit are you using?

I like Salifert above all others, but a calibrated PH meter is even better.

[Polkster13]

Are you using carbon as part of your filtration? If so, check and make sure it is not leaching phospates into the tank. Some carbons are full of phosphate and that may be where the nutrients are coming from. The easist way to check that is to remove the carbon for a couple of days and see if the algae bloom dies off. Put it back and see if the bloom returns. If so, it is the carbon and you need to change brands.

Just a thought.

[Richard]

I think the algae could help keep the ph higher by keeping CO2 levels low. Without knowing your alkalinity it is hard to say what your ph should be. Generally a higher ph will suppress the growth of some nuisance algaes. I don't think ph has much to do with your problem though.

My guess is phosphate. Pacman says you were using tap water and that's a good way to get really high posphate levels. I think it would be worth getting it tested although, as Joshua said, sometimes it can test at zero if the algae consuming it all. If you decide to buy a kit, I like Seachems Phosphate kit. Saliferts is supposed to pretty good but I have never used one. Most other brands only read down to .2 , which is still way to high.

[Polkster13]

Actually, PacMan said he has been supply RO water for the past 5 weeks and that before that Simon had been using tap water. Simon could have had a buildup of Phospate prior to switching over to RO and now it is leaching back into the system. However, I still think Simon should take a close look at his carbon, if he is using any. If not, then the phosphate may be entering his system by other means. You may also want to check the food you are using to feed your fish as a possible extra nutrient source.

If you provide no new nutrients to the system, the algae will eventually die off. If it doesn't then there is some additional source where it is getting into the system. Find the nutrient source and eliminate it and the algae will go away.

[Pacman]

TDS reads at 10-12 post RO, 0-1 post DI. I also tested for phosphates and nitrates when I first got it which were 0.

Matt

[Instar]

I've had algae blooms like that in bottles in a dark closet for over a year and it was still green and quite alive. Nitrients and light have no effect on some of the blooms. It would be easy to fix with a few rotifers and I have done that method myself with excellent results.

[Simon]

Here 's some answers to some of your questions.
The test kit I used was a Saltwater Master liquid test kit.
I have been using carbon in the sump and the hangon filter and replacing it frequently. The lights are being run only about 6 hrs. per day. It has a shallow fine sand bed. I've been feeding frozen food since someone told me the flake food could have been the problem. I have replaced the halogen light in the sump with a 9w 6500K power compact that has been on since Tuesday night (11-30-04).
And no I did not cure my rocks I got from Alamo Aquatics. The green did start after that. I have not however added any more live rock for a few months now.
I don't know much about rotifers and how to eliminate them once introduced if I need to go that route. The clam idea sounds easier.

Opinions?

Thanks agin,
Simon

[matt]

Yep, all that photosynthesis of the algae is raising the ph, if it's really at 8.4. Unless you have a decent probe and calibration fluid you don;t really know what the ph is.

I disagree with the clam idea. Those are not easy animals to keep healthy, and PC lighting is not good for them. I understand the theory here, I just don't think it's appropriate in this case. Who knows what the Ca/Alk situation is in this tank...Why don't you change ALOT of water, like 50% every week a few times in a row, using good R.O. water and quality salt, keep the lights on a normal cycle, take Larry's suggestion with the macro, and let it go for a while. It looks like there's hardly anything in your tank, BTW, unless I'm not seeing rocks behind the green. Once your water clears up a little, add some more CURED live rock, maybe even put in a nice sand bed and try to get a few filter feeders growing. From the looks of your sump, you hardly have any space for caulerpa, so I doubt if it's having much impact on your main tank. It also looks like the caulerpa gets pounded by your tank drain; is it possible some it is getting passed through the pump? If so, you'll have a "nice" caulerpa patch taking over your tank someday. Oh yeah, you might want to make sure your water is moving enough in the main tank. Just toss a couple of maxijets in there. (Not an actual toss, I'm sure you know!)

Have fun! :grin:

[Richard]

I still suspect you have a phosphate problem even if it isn't showing up on your test kit. Mainly because you were using tap water until recently.There are many ways to approach this problem but here's what I would do.

1.) Borrow/rent a uv sterilizer and run it for about 4 days.
2.) Use about a 1/4 cup of phosguard and replace daily for 4 days.
3.) Toss a polyfilter in the sump and make sure your skimmer is working well.
4.) Do a 5 gallon water change daily during this period. I try to avoid large % water changes.

If that doesn't work err...listen to someone else :?

[Instar]

Don't do the clam, it may die on you in that water even without considering lights.
Well, all that Matt said and Richard said. Richard's 5 gallon daily water change (or 10%) is what anyone should do if they think they are getting into trouble. Either way you're going to have to change the water, even if you go the rotifer route. Rotifers are easy, there is no wrong amount to add. But, even doing this method, you still have to change 100% of the water out. It will take a few days with rotifers. Picture the rotifers like little diatom bags going around gathering up the algae cells. They eat and reproduce and then work faster. Once they are done, those little bags of cells are easy to filter out and will go with your hang on and if not, then they can be gotten with a sterilizer. It may be hard to borrow one of those. Since you're going to have to change the water completely, 100% anyway, why not just do that first and see where it gets you? Not changing water since the live rock cycle and using tap water has done this and thats the only really good way to undo it. The live rock should be fine with 100% change and you can reacclimate your fish from a holding tank such as a large rubbermaid tote. You will have to mix enough water in something like a plastic trash can or tote and it may take you a couple days. With heater, lights, circulation and rocks in the tote, the fish will be fine for a couple days if it takes you that long to regroup with the water. You still will need some living sand and the right macro in the sump to keep this from happening again. And of course, RO/DI water. You can buy a top of the line unit now on our group order. Decisions, decisions, right?