my new stand.. now with questions

[adaminaustin]

The tank is a 240Gallon ocianic, with a 55 gallon fuge to the left of it. I will have a nice size sump below it. I am thinking two 29 gallon tanks hooked together.

Yes more braces will be added before the water goes in.

I added the sheetrock last night. Now for the mud and texture, and tommorow the paint and trim.

Now back to work I go. ;)

I will try to get more pics as the work gets done.

[JimD]

Lookin good Adam! Lemmee know if ya need any help!

[scuba_steveo]

Very cool!

[::pete::]

Sweet !!!

[adaminaustin]

Thanks for the offer Jim D. I'll let you know if any issues arise.

Pete and Stevo thanks for the kind words.

[NaCl_H2O]

Sweet! Looks like the start of a long & enjoyable project, Have Fun!

[Tim Marvin]

Looking good!

[360Reef]

Looks great Adam! I just put a 150 in my wall back a the begining of the year so if you need any advice on what to do or what I would have done different let me know.

-Greg

[adaminaustin]

Greg,
Now that you have done it once, would you do anything differently? What should I watch out for? Any advice could always help out with the master plan.

[MikeyBoy]

I would love to hear the answer to this REAL Quick as I am currently putting my 215 in wall.

Did he ever respond?

[adaminaustin]

What do the large tank experts think?

I think #2 is better, because the chiller pulls from the sump before the chiller return. That way the chilled water has to pass completely through the system before going back to the chiller.

The return pump is only pushing about 500 gallons per hour to each tank. That would set the fuge up with about 10x turnover and the main tank with about 2x turnover per hour. I also have tunze streams going into the main tank to boost turnover up to 35x per hour.

The Question is...With the main tank only having 2x turnover from the sump, and the Fuge having 10x, do you think that the sump and fuge will be much colder than the main tank?

I will have cut off valves and quick connects on the plumbing I just did not add them into the drawing.

Eventually I might get a OM 4way for the return (its not added into the budget though :? )So I will just make a manifold that gives even flow for now.

Thanks in advance,

[NaCl_H2O]

My thoughts, FWIW:

- Add ball valves to regulate flow from the return pump (100PXX) so that you get 5-10X turnover to the main tank and MUCH lower (2-5x) to the fuge, 10x through the fuge is too high!
- Both of your plans (if I'm reading right) have you re-skimming water?
- Both of your plans (if I'm reading right) have you re-chilling water? See below, this really isn;t a problem!
- Take water from behind the baffles to the skimmer & chiller, and back to the sump after the baffles.
- This may introduce skimmer bubbles, so maybe you could space out the baffles and return from the skimmer in a "mid-baffle" area?
- What size pump is going to the chiller? If the total flow of chiller & skimmer pump is greater than the 100PXX (don't forget head loss), then you may not be able to pull all this flow from behind the baffles?
- Don't worry about "colder" areas, the chiller won't make that quick of a temp change, it is VERY gradual. This also means that there is no problem pumping from & returning to the sump area "After" the baffles for the chiller.
- Does your sump have any filtration, or just a sump w/Baffles?

That's it off the top of my head?

[adaminaustin]

Steve,
Thanks for the fast reply.

- Add ball valves to regulate flow from the return pump (100PXX) so that you get 5-10X turnover to the main tank and MUCH lower (2-5x) to the fuge, 10x through the fuge is too high!
That should be easy enough.


- Both of your plans (if I'm reading right) have you re-skimming water?
- Both of your plans (if I'm reading right) have you re-chilling water? On #2 I have the chiller pump just before the first set of baffles. The chiller return is after that baffle.(#2 is really the first pic)


- What size pump is going to the chiller? If the total flow of chiller & skimmer pump is greater than the 100PXX (don't forget head loss), then you may not be able to pull all this flow from behind the baffles?
That will be the case. I do not have the chiller pump yet, but it will have to be decent size and pressure rated. (The chiller is about 40 feet away from the tank.) That brings up the next question, even though I think you already answered it. Should I re-skim or re-chill?
- Don't worry about "colder" areas, the chiller won't make that quick of a temp change, it is VERY gradual. This also means that there is no problem pumping from & returning to the sump area "After" the baffles for the chiller. Re-chill right.

- Does your sump have any filtration, or just a sump w/Baffles? I am thinking about putting a little acrylic box were the returns enter. That way I can put a bag of carbon in the sump when needed. Do you think I should add anything else?

If you think of anything else please let me know.
Thanks again,

[adaminaustin]

Maybe like this

[NaCl_H2O]

Yea, I like that much better!

I don't think it is a necessity to return the chiller behind the baffles? It could increase the flow through the baffles to the point of causing problems? Just place the in/out for the chiller a good distanace appart to get good water mixture in the sump.

Instead of a seperate carbon box, why not make the first baffle a **** followed by a underflow chemical compartment (eggcrate at bottom), and add a piece of egrate at the top too so you can use mechanical filtration above the charcoal if you want to later?

Maybe like this?

[adaminaustin]

Thanks again for all the help Steve.
I like how you have the sump. Thats like I had my last one, I just never cut the eggcrate to put up top for the mechanical filter part.
I'm really paranoid about microbubbles. I am trying to stay safe by putting all returns behind baffles.

This is a big turnover rate in the sump. The three pumps will move around 2700GPH. If I run about 25gallons of water in the sump that would be about 110x per hour turnover. :shock:

That turnover is much higher than my last tank's sump. It was about 80x per hour with no real issues.
- Do you (or anyone else)think that some microbubbles could get past the baffles with the water traveling that fast?

- Do you have your chiller return after the baffles? I know the chiller ruturn line won't have as meny bubbles as the standpipe. The splashing of the return line might cause bubbles though.

That brings up another question.
- How high does everyones return lines sit off the water of you sump? Do they sit just at, a little above or below the waterline?
My last tank I came down about 1.5 to 2 inches above the top of the water. It had a little bit of salt creep over time. Is their anything I could do to avoid saltcreep this time around.

[adaminaustin]

maybe oneday I will stop asking all these questions and start putting something together. :-D

[NaCl_H2O]

maybe oneday I will stop asking all these questions and start putting something together. :-D

Questions are safer ;)

It is tough to explain my sump(s), but the secret to eliminating microbubbles in your sump is a combination of time, turbulence, & distance. The more time water stays in the sump, moving at a less than turbulent rate, and the longer distance it travels ... the better chance the bubbles have to reach the surface. On my return I have a set of spraybars over a 2' x 3' mechanical filter and then a Wet/Dry filter full of BioBalls (Zero bubbles). Water returning from my skimmer & chiller travels about 15' at a fairly moderate flow rate before it makes it back to the return pump ... like I said, it is hard to picture :?

I don't think you can count ALL the water flow in your 110x flow through your sump? Only the flow that comes in behind the baffles and has the potential to carry bubbles?

I would place your return drain UNDERWATER a few inches, maybe with a 90deg elbow at the end. You are getting plenty or airation from the standpipes and the **** in the sump.

Also, place your bulkheads feeding your pumps as low in the sump as possible ... bubbles go "Up"!

[Ram_Puppy]

adam, I may be missing something, but why are you returning the fuge to the sump?

Since you have a dedicated room for the equipment here, have you thought about elevating the fuge above the tank, and letting it gravity feed into it? i.e. Water goes from tank to sump (sump to all the little goodies) Put a Y and a ball valve off your return line, the main return line goes into the tank, while the y'd off line (flow controlled by the ball valve) feeds the fuge. The fuge then gravity feeds right into the tank.

Just a thought.

[NaCl_H2O]

adam, I may be missing something, but why are you returning the fuge to the sump?

In all the plumbing mechanics, I missed that! Ram_Puppy is right, you should sonsider an elevated Fuge if you have the room!

[adaminaustin]

adam, I may be missing something, but why are you returning the fuge to the sump?

Ram Puppy You are correct, I have been bouncing this idea around in my head for awhile. I can elevate the fuge easy enough. I am still worried about micro bubbles in my display tank. The reason I am worried is that the standpipes for the return line has a air hole that draws in air. The return line will then put micro bubbles in the tank. I could always just make a surge device that pulls from the fuge and dumps into the main tank. (I know that the water still goes through a pump that feeds the surge device) I am really not worried about that though, it will kill some anthropods but most copods are small enough to make it through the pump just fine.

Yes the surge device will also make micro bubbles but only for 30 seconds or so every few mins.

What do you guys think, does anyone have a gravity feed sump, how do you drain into the main tank without getting a fair amount of bubbles?


-Next question
What do you guys think about me putting the chiller after the skimmer in the same loop. That would mean that I only have to run two pumps 24/7 not three. I have to use a pressure rated pump for my skimmer. I talked to my chiller manufacture and he said that it is fine if I only run a few hundred gph through it or 1200gph that this would not affect its efficient. The main question is will it hurt the beckett skimmer anyway having this much backpressure after it? ( the skimmer is about 40feet down the side of my house)

Thanks for all the help,