Fish to control algae

[btacker]

I have some bryopsis and other misc algae in my tank that I would like to get under control.

What fish do ya'll recommend for the task? I know there are no guarantees about what will eat what. All I'm looking for is a good all around algae eating fish.

I have a 110 gallon mixed coral tank ( clam, softies, LPS, SPS ) and here is my current fish list:

2 false percs
3 green chromis
1 regal tang
1 neon goby

I have looked at these:

Rabbit / Fox Face
I know that GaryP likes and recommends these. I read they eat zoos.
Do any of yall have one of these and have a problem with it eating up the zoos?

Kole Tang
I read that these are algae eating machines. Any problems with these?

Lawnmower Blenny
I know these would probably eat hair algae... but will they eat anything else?

Other suggestions are welcome!

[eleyan]

I have a couple of rabits in my 135G and they really cleanned up the rocks. I don't have any corals in that tank, so I can't really say about eating the zoos, but I thought they were 100% reef safe? I had a kole before and he really did a great job too.

[theedprado]

nudis & hermits?

[Instar]

Lawnmower Blenny - can bite anything and usually will try it sooner or later. Not reliable and will probaby end up picking on your favorite sps or clam. If you get a "good" one, it will clean the rocks like its name.

Fox faces (rabbit fishes) are very shy and would make a good tank mate for what you have. Best to QT them first for ick and shipping stress and work it out in another tank. Then after its healed and healthy, you can transfer to your main tank without using a net (use a bowl or specimen container to lift it out). Acclimation takes place by moving water from your main tank to the QT tank, dump the QT water and refill the main with new salt water. You get a little water change with this also, so this fish is even better for your tank. :)

Crabs of certain species eat algae too as do snails.

[btacker]

I think I made this algae sound like a bigger problem than it is. It is just kind of an eye sore. It is not taking over the tank. I already have numerous snails of all kinds ( cerith, nassarius, mexican, turbos, margarita ) and some crabs ( emerald, blue leg, scarlet ) and they do a great job at normal algae, but none of them really touch this stuff.

I was looking to add another fish, so I figured I would look at getting one that was productive :)

I think that I'm gonna get the fox face, but I'm still a little worried about it eating zoos and inverts. Is this a real problem?

I called and found a Lo Vulpinis and a Scribble? fox face. Any comments on which would be better?

[Instar]

Nudis (like the lettuce, E crispata?). Those need tons of light, not too much current blast and eat only a couple species of algae. The reason they last for a while in tanks is that they maintain their chloroplasts from the wild very well. Most people don't have the correct kind of algae to sustain them. They will eat filamentous hair but will not thrive on it. An algae nudi or shelless snail (lettuce) if matched to the algae species would be fair so long as the water is not blasting too hard, its kept in pristine condition without a lot of kalk to raise the alkalinity, has tons of light and they can't get sucked into overflows or power heads.

Either the Scribbled or the Lo will work. I think GaryP has zoos with his. The best one is the one you like best.

[Instar]

and they do a great job at normal algae, but none of them really touch this stuff

Ok, missed that... just what does this "stuff" look like?? Are you sure its Bryopsis?? The rabbits may not do it either. Bryopsis has what amounts to a neurotoxin in it that inhibits a nerve in the heart and will cause death. Almost no animal in the world will eat much of it, if at all. However, there may be a solution if your tank is relatively calm and free of hard surges. The shelless snail we call a nudi, Elysia crispata, the lettuce nudibranch. Scientific literature says it eats Bryopsis and Bryopsis is the food of choice for the young.

[btacker]

I'm not 100% sure, but it looks greener and more compact than hair algae.

[blueboy]

i think i have some bryopsis too, nothing i have eats it, and if you look very close it grows in a herringbone pattern, it is dark green, and very dense. i've been trimming it manually, but that's getting old, so i too would like to be rid of it. is this bryopsis? if a lettuce nudi will do it then i'll try one

[Instar]

Bryopsis looks like a little thin feather and pretty rich darker green. Make sure you have an id on it first. The lettuce slug is no picnic to keep. The lettuce will eat that but may not make a large dent in it. Those slugs also need tons of light and will crawl to the highest point in the tank. If thats the overflow box, then away they go. They, like many sensitive creatures, will not tolerate wildly adjusted dKh (alkalinity) from normal of 7.5 dKh. I would not keep a soft bodied animal with a peppermint or camel shrimp either.

[btacker]

I don't see any feathers... mine really looks like darker, denser hair algae. It doesn't get long... just forms tufts of hair looking spots.

[Instar]

You gotta really look close and have the light right to see the feathery looking strands. If its not somewhat like a feather, then its most likely some other species of turf algae. There are several that are like little strands that are dark green. I suppose a close up pic would be asking a lot?

[btacker]

I will try to get one tonight

[JimD]

Pic of Bryopsis
www.reefs.org/hhfaq/pages/picture_pages/faq_bryopsis.html

[btacker]

this stuff never gets longer than a quarter of inch to half and inch.

[GaryP]

I have never lost any zoos to a Foxface, at least that I was able to notice. My tanks are covered in zoos and palythoas.

Gary

[beagleton]

I got a lawnmower blenny about three weeks ago and have been impressed with the results. he even sucks the algae off the glass.

[astrong]

I've got 4 different species of rabbitfish in my tank and none of them touch my inverts or zoanthids. I think they are the best algae eater around. One of mine will jump out of the water to eat algae hanging from the centerbrace. Now thats dedication!

If the algae is filamentous, short and not feathery, it sounds more like turf algae to me.

[btacker]

So is turf algae bad?

[btacker]

Here are some pics of the offending algae. Would a rabbit fish eat something like this?

Are you pretty happy with your rabbit fish?

[GaryP]

He'll pick at it, but yout might be better off with snails or red or blue leg hermits. Is it me, or does that look like regular hair algae?

Gary

[btacker]

it could be. I just don't know. All I know is that it doesn't get longer than that. I thought hair algae would get long.

But let's say it is just hair algae. I have a bunch of snails (50+), a few hermits(5ish), and a regal tang ( which I know isn't the biggest algae eater in the world)... no one really seems to want to eat this stuff.

Here's the whole tank

[GaryP]

My experience has been that no fish will control an algae problem (except a Foxface with bubble algae). They will do some maintenance but not corrective action. For that you need to look at your water quality and clean-up crew.

Gary

[btacker]

Ok. I did some tests.

Salinity 1.024
PH 8.3
Nitrate - Not detectable
Nitrite - Not detectable

Thats all the tests I have. The tank is still pretty new. It has been up for 6 weeks, so maybe stuff is still settling down.

[Richard]

That looks like plain old hair algae to me. It is generally caused by excessive phosphate levels. You should get that tested. Most any tang should help clean it up. I'm surprised your regal isn't eating it but they don't pick at rocks and stuff as much as most other tangs (zebrasoma, ancanthurus sp.).

Just a note on bryopsis - I had a problem with it and put a foxface in. He chowed down for 4-5 days and then died. People say they will eat anything green - even if it kills them I guess. So I just started picking it out with some forceps and eventually got rid of it.

[Instar]

The hair algae problem is common in new tanks. But, you still need to get an attack pack in there to take it all down. A couple
turbo grazers, not the mis-nomered astrea turbos but the real mexican turbos (they can knock things around sometimes), more snails
and a variety of them, lots more hermits (like the small blue legs, scarlets these both stay small), some emerald crabs. The Regal
really should be taking care of the hair unless you feed him too often. He'll also take out a number of species of bubble algae.
Get a handle on it now - you have a very beautiful tank there. The advantage to an algae attack pak is that it gets
other undersirables in the bud too. A macro growing well in a refugium will help as well.

[btacker]

So, where is a good place to get some real mexican turbos?

I do have a lot of different things, but I would welcome more.

I have several snails:
nassarius(20+),
cerrith (10ish),
astrea (50+),
a few black shell snails I got from Tim,
and 1 bumble bee.

I also have a lot of white star fish that I got from Jim Norris's tank when he tore it down. I would say there are probably 50 of them in the tank.

I don't have many hermits because I read they are such snail eaters, but 2 blue leg
2 scarlet
3 emerald crabs.

One turned black and now has a HUGE claw that kinda scares me :)

Also have 2 serpent star fish, and 1 cucumber. ( I know these don't help with algae )

And a peppermint shrimp ( although I haven't seen him in 3 weeks ) in a pear tree. :-D

All make up water is Kalk water ( isn't that supposed to help with phosphates? )

I have a sump full of at least 4 kinds of macro. This pic is a little old. CD hooked me up with some macro and I got some sand from Zack.

[btacker]

I guess I listed all that to say that I'm pretty much doing everything I can think of.... so if I'm missing something, please let me know.

[JimD]

You have new tank syndrome... If all your perameters are in check, using ro/di for top off and water changes, a decent clean up crew (I personally dont recommend blue legged hermits) the algea should go away on its own. There will probably be more algae battles of differet kinds (diatoms, turf, cyanobacteria not an algae but still a pita,) before things settle down and balance out. Seems like youre doing all you can for right now. Id get that black clawed crab outta there asap!

[matt]

Gee, what a nice sump that is!! (hehe)
You might try a "sea hare" not sure what the real name for it is. Ideally you'd borrow one to see how it goes, whether it eats, etc, and then you could give it to someone after your problem is cleared up, maybe in a few months. The trouble with addding a large herbivorous fish, like a tang, is that it will add appreciably to your bio load, especially phosphate production, which will then add to your algae. It's not that you have a lot of fish now, but if you can get the tank in balance without adding fish, you'll be better off in the long run. I know for a fact that this tank set up is less than 3 months old; it's great to see my old tank back in action! I think that the whole eco-balance and micro-community is more complex than we typically think, and takes longer to mature. When I set up this very same tank, every thing I put in it was from an existing tank; so i thought I'd have a mature system in a very short time and there was a sizable fish community in there really soon. In retrospect, I think this was a big mistake on my part; next time, no matter how "old" the rock and sand is, I'm going to let the tank build up a nice stable bio/system and environment for several months before adding fishes.

[astrong]

That looks like Derbesia from the photo. About as bad as Bryopsis. If left unchecked it will overgrow the aquarium.

You need algae eaters and lots of them. In the last photo I noticed an Astrea snail chomping away at the Derbesia. They do a great job but you need about 75-100 of them. Also good are the tangs, esp Zebrasoma and Naso, and of course my favorite, the Rabbitfish. Naso's get too big for that tank so stick to Yellows, Purples, Powder Browns, etc. Kole tangs prefer shorter filamentous algaes and will be less efective unless you constantly trim the algae to get it the right length for them. Lawnmower blennies have a bad habit of dying after they run out of their favorite algae. Rabbitfish also do a good job.

Another option for isolated algae occurances is to take the offending rock and throw it in the front yard. This seems to work pretty well, assuming theres nothing attached to the rock you like or can't frag first.

Of course you need to check Phosphate and Nitrate levels, both should be as close to zero as possible. (Nitrate <5ppm, Phosphate <0.2ppm.) You can also drip Kalk to raise pH and remove some Phosphates. Also make sure your KH is 12-15, and you have have strong flow from your recently cleaned power heads. This favors high pH and high ORP, algae likes neither.

I apologize in advance to any phycologists out there, but I say we kill this stuff...

[Instar]

What Matt said. Forget about tangs. Thats the last fish to go in there. Foxface/rabbits are good but I would QT them in a separate tank first if
you decide on that. Most of them look pretty beat up when they come in and unless they are all healed up and over being totally freaked out
over shipping, you're likely to have ick troubles.
There's a couple good lfs in Austin. Michael at Austin Aquariums should be able to get some of the mexican turbos for you. They are big round snails,
not the cone shaped astreas. They eat a little more than the astreas and they can be a little clumbsy at times.

[btacker]

Thanks. Sarah checked at AquaTech, and they don't have any so I will check over at AA. Unfortunately this rock has lots of good stuff so I have to keep it. It has some really nice yellow and pink sponge and a huge green ric on it. I might could do with out the green mushroom rock. Anyone want to trade or buy a green mushroom rock :)

Thanks for the advice. I'm definately getting a rabbit fish. I really like the way they look and hopefully they will help out.