Help! Hole in Anemone

[jenreadsalot]

We awoke to find a hole all the way through our lta.
We puchase 2 seabe clowns a week ago and both were doing fine with it, but we qt one of the clowns for abuse on the other.
Last night he ate fine aand seemed very happy and now today???
he does not smell and still sticks on my fingers?!?
Is he splitting or our we doomed?
Thanks for any help you can offer.
jen

[::pete::]

Do you have a picture?

[jenreadsalot]

Left my cam out of town, sorry. The one clown is still trying to get him to fan out.

[::pete::]

It may just be splitting. Have you done or changed anything recently?

[jenreadsalot]

Small water change day before yesterday and feed him last night, can a clown fish "love" then to death? The fish are small?

[::pete::]

No, sometimes a water change and feeding will cause an anemone to split.

[jenreadsalot]

Should I gte the clown out?
Thank you so much Pete, all my research did not prepare me for this...

[::pete::]

No ... its natural and should be fine.

[Tim Marvin]

I have to agree with Pete. Usually if they are dieing you will see a bunch os spaghetti looking stuff coming out and a brown nasty goo were the anemone was. Splitting looks very much like they are dieing, but let it go and see what happens.

[jenreadsalot]

Thanks yall, I can not believe how much I am stressing this. It is just like when one of my kids gets hurt.

[jenreadsalot]

Now where the foot is (where there was the hole) the red is retracting and a light brown blob is coming out. It looks like insides!

[Tim Marvin]

Wait, it may just be waste. If it is dieing you can't save it at this point anyway.

[Tim Marvin]

I guess I should ask some basics. How much light, how long has the anemone been in there, and how much water do you change per month? Anemones need pristine water and good lighting to survive. A medium to heavy water flow helps also.

[jenreadsalot]

We purchased him about 3 weeks ago at AquaTek, we spent quite awhile talking with the guy and decided on this one due to his hardiness... We have Coralife 50/50 which the guy said was enoughlight. we do a water change of about 5 gallons every other week with daily topping off. At first he was not happy where we had placed him in the tank but finally settled into a spot. we waited a couple weeks before getting the clowns so he could settle in. The moment we put the clowns in they took to him, and he has seemed very happy. Even last night he was full and ate with no problems. The only change was removing one of the clowns because he/she was abusive to the other, I thought I time out might help. The other clown had been staying behind the lta and took up with the lta once mean clown was away.
The sg stays at 1.022 with the top offs and the temp stays at 80, everything else is good except nitrites are at .5 when I just checked.

[Tim Marvin]

Nitrates and phosphates will kill them. .5 is at the upper limit. It is hard to say at this point. You'll know for sure tomorrow. Do another water change if you can today.

[Instar]

Well, Jen, I have to disagree with the guy at your lfs. He just made a sale on you I am sorry to say. They need a lot more than a corallife 50/50. Thats not even in anemone ball park for any kind except maybe the kind that live underneath the pier at Port Aransas. (Didn't we have this conversation not too long ago?) In addition the light probably has a cover to block some of the usable light from the tank. In addition to the lack of proper lighting, the sg is too low. Normal sea water is not that low anywhere in the world except for a river bayou or outer estuary. It might work but, many of the symbiotic zoozanthellae that the anemone depends on need perfect clear water, no nitrites at all, no measurable nitrates and specific gravity from 1.024 to 1.025. They can shift a little in sg, but, for great results they need more light, stabile temperature and perfect water. I'm going to cast my vote early and say its not likely to make it. I really hope I'm wrong, but the odds are stacked against it here.

[Andrew]

Jen,
just curious,
how many bulbs do you have, and how much total wattage?
How deep is the tank? and where is the anemone located?

Andrew

[thedraven]

I agree with Instar, it doesnt sound like you have enough lighting. Pretty much everything Ive read suggests using either metal halides, or extremely powerful PC lighting (around 5-6 watt per gallon). Thats why Im not keeping one at the moment.. not enough light, despite my desire to keep one. Sounds like the lfs guy made another sale. I cant count the number of times Ive been given bad advice or lied to by some lfs, just for a sale. Thats why Im so relieved to be shopping where I am now (Fin-Addict), they actually take care of me and are quite honest. Oh well, ya live and learn.

[matt]

Yep, Larry's right. Too low S.G., but unless you have a GOOD (large glass floating) hydrometer or refractometer, you don't really know what your specific gravity is. An accurate thermometer and hydrometer/refractometer ought to be required equipment for any marine life purchase, if you ask me. (I know, noone asked me!)

Jen, you might want to read even more; I know you'll do this because of your username! There are a few good articles about anemone care on Ron Shimek's site, and there's an excellent book about host anemone/clownfish symbiosis, but I can't remember the author. It's called something obvious like "Clownfish and Pacific host anemones" or something like that. There are all sorts of specific things about species compatibility between clowns and host anemones, and some good info about general care for the anemones. One sobering statistic, though, is that host anemones taken from the ocean have a survival rate far lower than 10% in aquariums. I'd think twice before buying another one. The tank raised E.quadricolor anemones do much better in captivity, but you still need to provide the right habitat.

Regarding your light, if you're talking about normal output florescent lighting, you can't really keep any photosynthetic animals under it. If your tank is the "30 long", 36"X12"X16" tall, your easiest solution would be to go for 2 96W power compact bulbs with good reflectors. (Lately alot of folks have moved away from P.C. lighting, but with your tank it's the easiest and cheapest way to get sufficient intensity for photosynthesis) Also, you don't describe any water movement in your post other than the penguin filter. I really hope you have a few powerheads in the tank, other wise you're not moving nearly enough water around to keep animals healthy.

Good luck, Jen

[jenreadsalot]

Thank you evryone for your help, after a conversation with Tim I learned a lot. I do have powerheads but alas...
The lta is a goner, and my next purchase for my tank is new lights.
I know you learn from your mistakes, I just hate that something had to die. On the flip side the two peppermint shrimp have come out of hiding, maybe there are the buzzards of the sea world?!?
Thanks again for everyone's help it is nice to know there is help out there, and special thanks to Tim for my frantic phone call.

[Instar]

Jen, Sorry to hear about the lta.


side the two peppermint shrimp have come out of hiding, maybe there are the buzzards of the sea world?!?

You got that one right. They eat anemones too, by the way. Not while you are looking of course, but, they pull pieces from the tentacles at night, making little holes. Eventually all the stress and tissue loss kills the anemone. Then they finish it off. They came out because they could smell it. That should be proof enough.

[GaryP]

Most LFS say that peppermint shrimp are reef safe. I admit to not having a lot of experience with them, but my vote is a definite no.

Gary

[::pete::]

Jenn sorrry it wasnt splitting, but now we have gained more knowledge :D


You got that one right. They eat anemones too, by the way. Not while you are looking of course, but, they pull pieces from the tentacles at night, making little holes. Eventually all the stress and tissue loss kills the anemone. Then they finish it off. They came out because they could smell it. That should be proof enough.

I dont have them anymore, but that explains why I would find a lil' tip floating every once in awhile.

[jenreadsalot]

I was told the shrimp were safe, two lessons learned. After all the reading I have done today bristle worms are big bad baddies too, I thought the one I had seen in the tank were ok but...
What is good to rid the bristle worms?

[GaryP]

There is a lot of misinformation on bristle worms. Don't panic. How big is it?

Gary

[::pete::]

If you saw one you have more. I have never seen any ill effects from them and actually plucked, packed and added them after getting back to SA.

[Crab Rangoon]

Hm, that sucks, sorry to hear about it :( but on another note, while on topic, whats the general minimum size at which an anemone will split? I keep reading about it, but I can only imagine large ones splitting :o

[Instar]

I have tons of bristle worms in my tanks. With breeders too. They never even bother the spawns of my breeders. Great scavengers. I have some huge ones in my tank thats 4 years old. They keep the place clean. However, they can sting you and they can sting a scooter blenny when its sleeps because the scooter sleeps in the sand. The bristle worm sting of a sleeping blenny is accidental however. Then, if you have clams in the sand, bristle worms will set up colonies under the clam hinge and can, after a while, in some clams, wear a hole through from the bottom. The validity of this with clams probably depends on the clams tank conditions, health and the food available to the worms as I have not had any problem with such a thing at all. Bristle worms sting your fingers when pulling out algae or moving rocks, so wear gloves. Most of us add them to the tank now and don't worry about it. There are a number of authors (very respected and quoted ones too) out there that draw less than accurate conclusions based on creatures they like and don't like asthetically. You have to read a lot and then some more to separate truth from fiction in all this.

[jenreadsalot]

The majority of my reading had said they were good, so I never worried just thought of it as part of the family and a nice cleaner. I feel better knowing he is not totally evil.

[Instar]

A medium sized RBTA can split at 4 to 5 inches. Usually an LTA will have to be a bit larger. Others also have to be larger usually and conditions for lighting met.