Oceanic salt recall??!!

[Dozer]

I've just been told by two different stores that their Oceanic salt was all recalled and that "everybody" is complaining about "major" problems with Oceanic Salt. Both stores sent all of their salt back to Oceanic. This is the first I've ever heard of this and wanted to throw this out there. I currently have 100% Oceanic salt in my tank right now, so I'm obviously a bit concerned! Anybody have any more info. on this?

[BA]

ya i just called texas tropical, and they said that the problem is that they had too much calcium and when it reacted with the RODI water, that it cause some major ALK drop, and some problems for some reef tanks that don't supplement....

[Brett Wilson]

I emailed Oceanic for specifics... I'll post here what I find out...
-Brett

[Dozer]

Aha! Light bulb moment. I've been having a terrible time lately keeping up... guess what... my kH. Even with adding Kent dkH super buffer! And I use RODI water and Oceanic salt. It's all starting to make sense now... Thanks BA!

I also think all of this caused some problems with my BTA which never really recovered.

[blueboy]

ah hah, i to have been plagued by mysterious alk problems recently, using RO water and Oceanic. so, what do we do ?

[Richard]

I have not heard of a recall yet, I'll see what I can find out tomorrow.

It makes sense to me though. I used Oceanic salt to start up my 215 a month ago and have not had a good opinion of their salt since. Calcium was over 500 and even though my Ca reactor took care of the low Alk things have still seemed "off" in my tank. At first I thought it was the salt but then second guessed myself and decided I was just stocking the tank too quickly although I couldn't measure any water quality issue. I think I was telling GaryP I didn't like Oceanic salt but couldn't give a good reason why. Note to self: Always listen to your first hunch. Guess I'll step up the water changes (with a different salt) for a while and see if things start behaving like they are supposed to.

Another weird thing. On my 215 my ph probe can never lock in on a ph reading. It just bounces back and forth between 7.8 and 8.2. Doesn't do this on any other tanks where I use Kent salt. I wonder if their salt is just ionically screwed?

[Brett Wilson]

Richard, is that tank grounded? that could be the issue...

[Richard]

Yeah it's grounded. It has been puzzling to me to say the least.

[Tim Marvin]

Richard, check if any of the wires from the PH probe touch any other tank wires. You may also try running it on batteries or plugging into a different outlet. They are very sensitive and react like that most of the time if they are touching a wire from one of the lights or the tank is not grounded.
I use Oceanic salt, and have since it came out with absolutely no problems...... I dose Buffer and Kalk as well though. SPS, LPS, and numerous other corals all growing like crazy. I have almost a full bucket of IO that has been sitting there for 4 months, unless I set up another tank I probably won't use it up too fast. I will occasionally use it for a water change just because it is there not that I want to. I am sticking with Oceanic.

[Tim Marvin]

Oh my gosh! I just tested my PH and you guys are right! My PH dropped from 8.4 alllllllll the way down to 8.3 since last week when I checked it.... My mag is way down to 1450 also.......What should I do? Should I do a 100% water change to IO?........JK.......... I'm staying with Oceanic right now. Unless I see something that is obviously Oceanic related... Jumping to conclusions without looking for other problems can kill your tank faster than the salt. Lots of tanks can get low on PH useing any salt. Add some buffer, and wait.

[Brett Wilson]

Jumping to conclusions is bad, that's why I emailed them directly to find out what they have to say. I just got my first bucket of their salt today so hopefully if it is indeed high with CA like people are reporting (including randy holmes-farley on RC) I can compensate for it however necessary...

[Tim Marvin]

I suppose I can mix in 1/3 IO with it when I use it....

[eleyan]

I've been having the same low kh high calc issue since I started using oceanic. I switched to red sea salt a couple of months ago and I noticed that my alk is slowly rising back (the lowest point was 7 kh + 500cal and now its back to 8-9kh + 450cal)

[Tim Marvin]

Hmmm, do you add buffer or drip kalk??? Maybe that is why I am having success with it..

[JimD]

Tim, you should test a newly mixed batch for Alk and Ca at the recommended SG and post the results.

[Dozer]

Yeah, I agree Tim, I didn't mean to sound like drastic action is needed- I personally didn't do any water changes with another brand or anything like that. I think my title sounded a little more hysterical than I meant it to, but it was kind of freaky to have multiple stores tell you Oceanic recalled all of their salt due to major problems, but didn't have other details for me at that time. I start assuming the worst of course. Now that I know what it is I'm far less scared because I can closely monitor the kH pH, although it is still worrisome, because bringing it up with super buffer has had sporadic results- i.e. large swings.

Carlos at River City told me later today that Oceanic says they have fixed the problem and he will be carrying the new stuff within the next week or two. I'll be curious to see how they fixed this. Hopefully it won't send something else out of whack in their formula.

[Tim Marvin]

Brand new bucket, new water right out of the garage can.....
Temp 68 degrees
salinity 1.024
P.H. 8.4
DKH 9
CA 500 on the dot
O2 7.1 ppm

[NaCl_H2O]

Brand new bucket, new water right out of the garage can.....
Temp 68 degrees
salinity 1.024
P.H. 8.4
DKH 9
CA 500 on the dot
O2 7.1 ppm

Umm, tasty water :-D

I've been using Oceanic for at least 6 months - no problems whatsoever - I also dose ESV B-Ionic.

[GaryP]

Has anyone checked to see if Oceanic puts a lot or batch number on their buckets. If there is a recall for something like this its usually limited to a certain batch. Sounds like a definite lack of manufacturing quality control to me.

I come from a chemical manufacturing background and this brings back memories of similar QC SNAFUs.

Gary

[Tim Marvin]

No numbers that I could find.

[Brett Wilson]

Gary, When I sent them an email I asked that as well.

Some cursory searching of RC didnt pull up anything regarding a recall.

-Brett

[Brett Wilson]

For what it's worth, this is what I got from Oceanic RE Salt Recall:



Thank you for the e-mail, and your interest in Oceanic products. We here at Oceanic have not nor plan on calling back any of our products. Oceanic has been building quality aquariums for over 20 years, and we have few issues with the integrity of our products. If I can be of any further assistance, please let me know.

[Brett Wilson]

Now Oceanic wants to know what stores mentioned this... I'm a little hesitant that it might start a riot!!!



Thank you for the e-mail, we have not received any contact from any store stating a return of our products. It would be most helpful if you could provide the name, number, and/or address of these locations in question. We appreciate your concern and interest in our products.

[Brett Wilson]

Richard did you find out anything?

What I would like from Oceanic is some information on this:
I have an unopened bucket of Oceanic salt. Before I open it I want to know if I should expect a CA problem.
If so, what exactlly do I need to do to correct it?
I do dose Kalk....

[Instar]

If a tank using one brand of salt for a while, then changes brands to Oceanic Salt and this is either different or better, then its necessary to go through all the pain of reassessing the dosing and daily testing for some time to recalculate consumption rates. Failing to do this and dosing at what worked for the previous salt mix may not give up the desired results. Changing salt brands to a "superior product" (if this is what Oceanic is compared to what was used in the past) means starting over on all those dosing/consumption measurements.

[Richard]

Okay, I just got off a lengthy phone call with Oceanic. First, there is absolutely NO RECALL of oceanic salt. He was initially very angry about this rumour but calmed down after we talked a bit. Dozer you should tell whatever stores told you there was a recall to stop saying it as this borders on liable. If they don't like the salt just say they don't like it - everyone's entitled to an opinion.

We then discussed some of my issues with their salt, mainly calcium levels of over 500. So here's the deal. Oceanic targets calcium levels of ~450 at a specific gravity of 1.021 - 1.023. I run my tanks at 1.024 - 1.025 and that is why the Ca levels are so high. As a plus, according to oceanic, they have a formula and manufacturing process that provides for greater consistency (sp?) than other brands. He did say that oceanic does not contain as many elements in it as some salts like Kent but that this is on purpose and they presume most reef hobbyists are supplementing. That seems like a reasonable assumption to me although it doesn't apply to all of us.

So I think the bottom line is this. If you are using Oceanic and are happy with the results you are getting then there is no need to change. If you are like me and do not like to target the types of numbers oceanic salt provides [EDIT:for a given specific gravity] and do not want to supplement much or at all then maybe it's not for you. In any event, I will continue to stock Oceanic salt even though it's not my personal choice. I stock plenty of products I personally don't use, but how to run a reef tank is really more opinion/experience than fact so to each his own.

Hope this clears things up.

BTW - I did a water change last night and everthing lived! WHEW! I was worried. --JK Tim

[Richard]

Still can't figure out the ph probe thing though. It's on batteries, tanks grounded, I can even take a glass of water from that tank and the probe cannot lock on to a ph yet I can walk over to any other tank and it reads just fine.

[TexasState]

Have you try to gently clean your probe?

[Dozer]

Wow, thanks to everyone for the research and postings on this!

Honestly, it had nothing to do with not liking it, one of the stores plans on carrying it again probably this week, so there was nothing negative intended. I'm going to talk to a couple people and think a little more before opening my mouth next time on this board :) . I'm now thinking that I jumped to conclusions based on somebody telling me (and my wife) about "rumors" of a recall, that affected their decision to re-stock the salt. I went over this again with my wife and we cannot remember this store actually saying that it was actually recalled. We were told by two different stores that they had no Oceanic Salt, and had sent what they did have back to Oceanic personally, because of major problems that customers were having and that they had heard rumors of a recall due to those problems. At that point I hastily posted this post and now realize I was not careful enough with my choice of words! The point of my post was actually to see if anyone else knew of a recall, not to tell everyone there was one (hence the ??marks in the title), but it was a poor choice of words I then used in the body of the post. (note to self, never ever consider running for office).

What made it more confusing, is that one store told my wife that supposedly Oceanic had "fixed" the problem. Well, Oceanic seems to be denying there's any "problem", and that they have changed anything at all. I am going to confirm with that person before I say anything else about that, it could be that my wife misunderstood.

Personally, I really have liked the salt up until I had this kH problem, and plan on using it again, and both stores I talked to plan on carrying it again, so there is no bad intent here, just probably a case of people (me included) not being careful with what we say.

So just to confirm, I was not outright told there had been a recall of Oceanic salt. I don't know that there was/is/will ever be one. Also, I want to talk to the stores again before I mention who actually said what on this message board and have other people accuse them of all sorts of things (see, I'm learning my lesson). Sorry to all for the confusion, I'm sure I will post later on this...

[SuperXdude]

went to alamo today....

i was told oceanic recalled the salt due to copper in there, yet there were a few backs of oceanic salt still on the shelves.



X

[Dozer]

Richard- Thank you for mentioning the Specific Gravity thing. I personally target 1.025-1.026, and I only supplement with Kent dKH superbuffer, so it's obvious now why I've been having a problem...

[Dozer]

Wow, first I've heard of the copper thing. But that's at least three stores then that I have heard use the word "recall" in some way or another... This is getting weird.

[Brett Wilson]

Some one is not liking the salt and just putting false blame on it (ie three pet stores, pretty coincidental)
OR Oceanic is lying
OR Oceanic doesnt have good internal communication and the person Richard talked to has no idea of what may be going on with the other stores

Either way, I think i'll go ahead and open my bucket and try it out for the first time.

[Richard]

I originally left a message with an oceanic rep. He called back and asked if I would talk to the the president or vp (can't remember which title), which I did. So I don't think it is likely he was unaware of a recall. He was pretty clear - There is no Oceanic recall.

As far as what is going on between stores and their distributors, I have no idea.

Ahhhh, How boring this hobby would be be without constant salt mix controversies. For those that just can't get enough. A study by Dr. Tim of marineland (Instant Ocean) is available on advanced aquarist. His study disputes the methodology & findings of Dr. Shimek's study(favored AquaCraft). Of course those on the Shimek side dispute Dr. Tim's methodology/findings. :roll:

[GaryP]

I wasn't real happy to hear that Oceanic doesn't had "as many elements" as other salts. I have discontinued using trace element supplements based on info that frequent water changes usually provide enough trace elements. In that case I think I will be changing salts as soon as I finish the current bucket. I have cut my supplements to calcium, buffer, and magnesium. I think I will be testing the batch I have made up for manganese and strontium. I'm assuming those might be the elements they are referring to.

Gary

[Dozer]

Turbo- Are you thinking possibly a distributor, or am I reading something between the lines that isn't there? Does anyone know if many stores in the area all buy their salt from the same distributor or am I out in left field here? That's the most logical thing that comes to my mind when you think of numerous stores in the same general area all talking about something that the manufacturer vehemently denies...

[JiMiCrAcK]

I've just been told by two different stores that their Oceanic salt was all recalled and that "everybody" is complaining about "major" problems with Oceanic Salt. Both stores sent all of their salt back to Oceanic. This is the first I've ever heard of this and wanted to throw this out there. I currently have 100% Oceanic salt in my tank right now, so I'm obviously a bit concerned! Anybody have any more info. on this?

I just joined this site today after reading this post on Oceanic salt. I work in the Pet Supply industry and I can assure you that there is no recall on Oceanic salt. There is no other salt in the industry that goes to the length that Oceanic does to produce a quality salt. Every run is batch tested and if the parameters are off even a little then the entire batch is thrown out. No other major salt company does anything like this. If you look closely on the lid of the buckets you will see a number. That is the batch number. The other sizes have it also, I'm just not sure where it is located on the smaller sizes. Oceanic put a lot of prep time into this salt and consulted some of the biggest names not only in the Industry but also took almost a year to test it in some Texas' aquarium stores to get professional feedback. One very direct result of that is how fast it mixes. I feel 100% safe using Oceanic salt and so should you.

[Tim Marvin]

GaryP, I dose the same supplements as you... I have had no problems with it and getting very good growth out of acropora, and all my other corals, in both tanks..

JimiCrack, welcome to MAAST!!!!What do you do in the pet industry?

[MikeyBoy]

Wow...I am brand new to the hobby but I think this explains a bunch of weird things to me...I have been way perplexed, thinking I was doing something wrong.
Before all 110gallons fell on the floor, My ALK was sky high, PH was continually low and Calcium was around the 500 mark or higher.
I had been adding pro 8.2 trying to keep it up to par but seemed like I was having to add alot.
I have used OCEANIC from the get go.
I was even asking all the fish shops up until a week ago why these measurements were like they were and noone even said anything about this recall.
It is funny, because I was asking these questions specifically and I read this post, and it like described my tank........specifically.
I will probably by another brand when I refill the new tank.

[Ram_Puppy]

Mike, except for this one batch, I think Oceanic has been spot on. I don't think you need to change brands, as was mentioned earlier, at least oceanic had the cajones to ante up and recall, a lot of companies probably would not have done that. I am sticking with oceanic, and the fact that Tim is makes me feel extra secure in that action. The only salt I have even considered going to after oceanic is the Fritz super salt gel, which, I think Jim Norris might use, but I am not sure. It's not locally carried that I know of, so that is the only reason I haven't given it a whirl.

[Tim Marvin]

I have used Fritz, and it is a good salt also... Oceanic was not recalled, it was only rumor....

[GaryP]

Mike,

When you say your pH was low, how low is low? I think a lot of folks freak out unnecessarily over pH. As long as it above 7.8 it should be OK. Your tank is still relatively new and bacterial activity is close to a peak. High bacterial growth=low pH. As long as your alkalinity is OK, you should be OK. The other factor to consider is that pH fluctuates during the day. pH is lowest at night when CO2 production is high. It should fall as the day goes on.

Often times aquarists measure pH first thing in the AM after the lights have first come on. At this time pH would be at its lowest. This is why some folks with a fuge run their fuge lights on a reverse cycle. That is, lights on at night in the fuge. Ideally, you might want to run pH several times during a day on a weekend to see how it varies with time.

Gary

[astrong]

Oceanic never recalled their salt. They stand behind it. But I guess they are supposed to...

Every time a new salt comes out, I hear threads like this. I think it may be a coral reaction to new polymers or just that corals like consistency. Or maybe the competition likes to start rumors.

Every time you change something, the inhabitants get a little stressed out. I switched my tanks over from IO to OC and haven't had any problems.

Also I dont think adding new water with high calcium should be a problem, if you change 25% with 500ppm Ca+2 you will only rise from 400 to 425ppm, not bad in my opinion.

[::pete::]

I have used it since it came out and I have had no problems and stopped with all the other suppliments I needed to raise IO. I occasionally use super buffer and use B-Ionic daily. That along with regular water changes keeps my water parameters in check.

[Richard]

Good point on the water changes. Speaking for myself and a few customers who have had Ca/Alk issues with this salt, it has only been when starting up a tank from scratch.