Aqua Trend 105 Tank from Forever Pets BLOWSOUT on my floor!

[MikeyBoy]

Everybody,

Just to let you know, bought a new 105 from Forever Pets 10 weeks ago.
Came home 2 nights ago, the whole bottom of it is split and all water on my hardwood Floor and Berber carpet.

About $8000 worth of damage.
Dont by any tanks from this guy!
The owner Toy, says he isnt going to stand behind it.

Just an FYI, contact me with any questions

Mike :cry: :cry:

[don-n-sa]

Mike,

I am real sorry about the tank...just out of curiousity, was the tank on a stand from them as well.

[Instar]

Sorry for your disaster. I hope you could save the inhabitants.
I'm curious too; How does a bottom glass "split"? I've dropped tanks and not had that happen. How does 105 gallons do $8000 worth of damage to Berber and hardwood? Both are pretty much durable as they come. If you're in reefing very long, you'll soon have a shop vac for these kinds of celebrations. Insurance may pay the first time, but, after that, the shop vac is your only friend. Then you can clean it up before your wife gets home and thats good insurance.

[Tim Marvin]

Did a seam split? Sorry to hear about the problem.

[RobertG]

Sorry to here, tell me about your rockwork. Could something of fallen. Do you have a sandbed or any substrate? I own a Aqautrend tank.

Thanks

[Richard]

According to Oceanic, split bottoms are alway the telltale sign of an improperly constructed stand. The guy from Oceanic told me that when they see a split bottom, they will always require proof that it was on one of their stands (photos, receipts, the whole enchilada) and maybe even require the stand to be returned before they honor the warranty.

[MikeyBoy]

It was on of one of his stands sitting on the hardwood floor.
It had about 3 inches of sand that I bought from him.
It had 100 pounds of liverock on it.

[MikeyBoy]

The guys at his shop set it all up and even rearranged all the live rocks about 4 weeks ago.
Forever Pets pretty much did all the setup.
I bought all the original setup from him.

[RobertG]

Did the glass split or the seams?

[MikeyBoy]

The tank split right down the middle. from almost half way from front to back.
All the way from right to left edges.

[Instar]

If he or his rep set it up, why is he not going to stand behind the work, tank, et al?
I'd like to hear the whole reasoning behind that.
Sounds like a flaw in something to me.

[matt]

If what you're saying is accurate, then clearly aquatrends is at fault. Do I have this right?
1. New tank less than 4 months old-should be a 1 year warranty.
2. Aquatrends stand purchased from them along with the tank.
3. Aquatrends employees installed the tank on the stand in it's current location, and even put the rock in and filled the tank.
4. There was no event like something getting dropped on or in the tank, and you never moved the tank,

If all those things are true, and there's nothng missing from your story, then Aquatrends simply must honor their warranty. I'd like to know what he's saying...I know Toy is a squirrelly guy and will initially try to get out of anything, (you should have heard his "explanation" about drilling my tank in the wrong place) but this is rediculous. In my case, persistance paid off and he eventually had to re-make the tank.

[NaCl_H2O]

Unless they specifically stated "No Warranty" on their work, or you did something to signifficantly alter the setup, I think you should expect them to replace the tank, contents, inhabitants, and probably the labor & materials for your home repairs. There are legal "Implied" warranties on workmanship & services.

I would approach him again and see if he is feeling any different. Your choice if you want to involve "Lawyers" (Yuk), but $8K is a bunch of money!

There had to be some product flaw (tank, stand?), or neglect in setup for this to fail in this way!

[dan]

sorry to hear that mike. i would go back to aqua trend and tell them that they are at fault. THEY built the tank, THEY built the stand, THEY set it and what are THEY going to do to replace what THEY did?

[JimD]

I had an Aquatrend tank explode in my living room an hour after I set it up, the glass was too thin for a reef tank. First the bottom blew out, then the front pane split from top to bottom. How thick was the glass on the tank in question? That sucks...

[Tim Marvin]

I'd have to go with Matt, and NACL's answer! They should have some responsibility!
JimD, LOL, I remember Jimbo telling me about that! What a drag....

[JimD]

Yeah, I can lol about it now, but at the time I was !#@$%^$* this and *&^%@!# that... lol

[MikeyBoy]

Guys,
Thanks for the moral support if nothing else.
Yes they did set it up, on the stand that I bought from them, and it never was moved.
2 days later after all the plumbing dried, I put about 3 inches of sand in the tank, which I bought from them. They sold me everything I needed in the amounts they recommended. I then placed the 100 lbs of live rock in.
Then, 6 weeks after initial setup, his employee came over for service and helped me with my first water change.
HIS employee moved all the rock and restacked it all after we found a dead fish. He even stated he wanted to restack the rock because he thought he could make it look better. I did not touch a single piece of rock. I have not moved a single piece of rock since his employee redid the stacking of the rocks. Now about three weeks later, the tank fails. His guys have come by while I was not here to check on things, but to my knowledge, nothing has ever, ever fallen in the tank.
I think it is a just bad craftsmanship.
I think my insurance company is going to settle with me and then go after him in a big way.
Anyways, he is ticking me off by not standing behind his product and his employees.
I think I am going to buy a new Oceanic and be done with it.

[blueboy]

sorry to hear about your tragedy, i hope your insurance company reams this guy! i've never been to AT, but this guy sounds like a real piece of ...., um work, yea that's the word. hope your not too discouraged, keep plugging away, the payoff will come. and so will his!

[JimD]

"How thick was the glass on the tank in question?" Can we get an answer to this? Im very curious to see if they built the tank with undersized glass, on a 105 it should have been 7/16" minimum...

[NaCl_H2O]

Hang in there, don't lose interest due to one POS tank you bought. I would definately recommend the Oceanic tanks, they absolutely have set the industry standard for quality - AND they have a REAL warranty, and a WebSitre for warranty registration. However, you MUST buy an Oceanic stand for their warranty, and the are not cheap. I have heard that you can submit stand plans and if approved, they will warrant their tanks, but I haven't been able to confirm this.

Keep us posted!

[matt]

I'm pretty sure they use 3/8 on everything except the really big tanks. At least that's sort of what I remember from talking to the guy that actually builds the tanks there. Toy is definitely a weird character and I can see him trying to weazle out. But, you do have a warranty card on this right? You seem to have a very strong case here; makes we wish I was a cut-throat lawyer, haha.

[JimD]

3/8", thats what I thought, the tank I had that blew up was 3/8" and it was only a 65 gallon, I cant imagine 3/8" glass on a 105. When I had it replaced I had to specify that it was going to be a reef tank and wanted 1/2" glass. When I first got the tank I didnt even think to question the thickness of the glass,,,,, lesson learned. I ended up with 7/16" and so far after three years plus, no problems. If glass thickness is the issue here, it may be difficult to substantiate a claim through the vendor because the buyer wasnt well enough informed. That was the case with me, I ended up having to out of pocket a new tank and absorb the household damage.

[Ram_Puppy]

well, I have heard to many negative comments about these tanks, repeatedly coming scratched, the guy drilling stuff wrong, now splitting, I have no intentions of buying from him. My next tank will be an oceanview, I am purchasing two 115 gallon Ocean View Cubes my next time out (to sit either side of the entertainment center, one will be my reef, the other lions). Oceanview is a subsidiary of Oceanic, and have a pretty good rep.

[MikeyBoy]

Honestly, I dont know.
I took the tank back over to him.
I am new to the hobby, and just trusted his tanks were okay.

[Ram_Puppy]

AS people have said, don't give up, and stick to your guns. From what you have said there isn't anything you have done that should have caused this failure. I am sure many more people have bought from this guy and been happy than have complained, just as sure as I am even Oceanic tanks have their problems (some bow fronts come to mind).

[MikeyBoy]

Any formal thoughts on how I can hold Toy accountable?
Is there anyway MAAST can help? Could we send him a letter?
Maybe a formal boycott!!! Wouldn't that be cool. An actual movement by the members!
Is there letterhead?
By the way, there is a check in the mail to officially join, per Misti's email post.
I just get more hacked by the day.
The damage is up to about $8000.

Mike

[Tim Marvin]

Unfortunately, MAAST has no legal authority to work as a mediator. It may cause a legal headache for our group, and set us up for future disputes... MAAST is better off to stay out of these matters. Although, by you posting your issue, it will let others see what is going on and perhaps they may have a similar problem with Toy. If everything stated is true, word of mouth goes a long way. Make sure you don't post your opinions on this just the facts. The facts are, from what you stated, you bought a tank, they set it up, it has cracked and they are not covering it.... Why???? Are they claiming you cracked it? What is the excuse you are getting?

[fiji2000]

PM SENT

[fiji2000]

I may be having trouble sending the PM.
Call me.
I have a meeting Tuesday morning between 9:00 and 11:00 am, but call any other time.

Russell
Fiji2000
Cel 213.3856

[NaCl_H2O]

Any formal thoughts on how I can hold Toy accountable?

As Tim said, stay wth the facts - no emotional opinions. Document all the facts with dates.

Find a lawyer that is willing to issue a letter to the LFS (Not the owner, your beef is with the company) referencing the facts and stating your demands with the potential for litigation if the demands are not met (and specify a date). Most lawyers will do this for a nominal fee. I just had to go this route on some home improvement work, and it DID help!

Good luck!

BTW - Dealing with lawyers should ALWAYS be a last resort! Try to approach the LFS one last time & let him know your next step is going to be a lawyer.

[matt]

I have a feeling, if what you have described is true, that Toy knows his store is responsible, and is hoping you'll just go away, because if he admits to liability on the tank by replacing it, he's probably afraid that that could be taken as proof of his liability to the damage on your house, which is much more serious. Anyhow, you do have a warranty card and receipts for the tank, stand, and installation, correct? That's very important. Assuming you have that, what you might do is check on the law regarding implied warranties. For example, it's possible that aquatrends is only liable for replacing the faulty tank; but it's also possible that the law states that damage caused by a faulty product is also collectable. I bet your insurance company knows that one by heart.

When you find out thatyou should have a better idea of what to do. Although, I think you stated in an earlier post that your insurance company was going to pay this and then try to recoup from aquatrends. That's definitely the easiest for you.

Now, why don't you consider a nice new acrylic tank? Well made acrylic aquariums will never fail and they really are much more beautiful to look through. You've got to get one that's made right, though, and watch out for scratches. Of course, I'm a little biased towards acrylic stuff.

[z28pwr]

Any update ?

[fiji2000]

Mike,
I’ve been watching your post for several days. I think that my PM may have been blocked. We don’t like to see consumers taken advantage of. My wife is an attorney, and will advise you for free, if you like. Sorry to here of this terrible experience.

Russell

[Henry]

any updates. Has Toy helped you out any?

[Tim Marvin]

If he doesn't, looks like an attorney is standing by!!!!!Ouch!

[MikeyBoy]

UPDATE:
Went and saw Toy yesterday. He says he is not going to stand behind the tank. He stated I must have dropped something (a rock) in the tank.
I picked the tank back up from him and took it to Fin-Addict and Aquatic Warehouse here in SA. Both Felipe and Ivan says there is no way this was a fallen rock and they both say that in their opinion, this is just a bad tank. They are both going to write me letters stating their professional opinion this was a crap tank so I can use this in litigation if needed.
I intend on pursuing it with an attorney and will send a letter and the opinion letters from Aquatic Warehouse and Fin-Addict.

I just wanted to give everyone a update. So many of you have asked questions about it.

Thanks for all the support.

Mike

[matt]

What a mess...this pretty much cinches it for me, I'll never buy another aquatrends tank.

[MikeyBoy]

Hey Matt,

I would like to talk to you about building a big sump / fuge for the system I am planning.
What is the easest way to get a hold of you?
Phone number?

[wkopplin]

Dan builds the sumps. He has built tons of them for people here (including me).

Matt moved off to the fine state of West Virginia. Hopefully we can talk him out of retirement from building skimmers and CA reactors.

[NaCl_H2O]

Mike, Dan's Aquaplex "Dan" on MAAST - he built all my sumps, fuge, etc. - great work. He will work through your ideas in drawings and build exactly what you want!

I HIGHLY rcommend his work!

- Steve

P.S. It sucks that it has come to lawyers with aquatrends - guess that's just the world we live in! However, more times than not, I have experienced the complete opposite with suppliers in this industry!

[Instar]

I agree with your lawsuit here. But, I am curious as I have Berber with no side effects to the numerous floods I make... what happened to your Berber carpet? This stuff is bragged on by everyone for being so indestructable that it makes me wonder now, what happened to yours and could it happen with mine?

[GaryP]

I think the problem is that you can get mold growing in the pad if it gets a thorough soaking.

Gary

[Polkster13]

If you decide to get another tank, you might want to look at acrylic instead of glass.

[kaiser]

Can we have an update on this?

[Isis]

All I know is that I have worked for Toy and don't trust him for crap. He will sell you crap to make money, and if you are an employee who tries to steer customers in the right direction instead of selling useless things, then he will rip you a new orifice.

[Tim Marvin]

Sounds like someone to NOT do any business with...

[GaryP]

Isis,

Thanks for your input.

Gary

[Ram_Puppy]

As much as we may all want to hear about this now, MikeBoy might be wise to cease updating us for legal reasons, once he retains an attorney, things become a lot more serious. Just my opinion, maybe fiji2000's wife can give a more clear idea on this...