Clown Breathing Hard

[Sherri]

I bought 2 clowns at Aquatic Warehouse today...and one is breathing very hard & fast. The other is fine and no probs. What if anything can I do for this little guy? He did eat earlier....but I noticed he wasn't very active...now he is sitting low in the tank.

Thanks

[Reef69]

Hi Sherri..I did see the two clowns you bought..i asked Louis the new guy to go help you but i guess he didnt hear me since the store was crowded..it seems like your clown is gettig used to his surroundings..it is normal in clowns, not to be active for a few days..some can be an exception and swim and eat and look happy since you add them..he is probably a bit stressed, so dont worry..im sure he will be fine

[Sherri]

Hey...thanks...I hope so....The only things in the tank (30 gal) other than the 2 clowns are a watchman goby & his pistol shrimp. I would hope they wouldn't hassle him when lights out. LOL BTW...Louis kept telling me I was next in line, but he never did...he was turning in fifteen different directions. Tamer helped when I begged him. I was trying to claim these 2 clowns which were on opposite sides of the store from each other from noon till 12:45...Crazy... $7 ea is a great price...

Gonna go ahead & turn lights out & let him settle a bit...thanks again - hope that is all that's wrong with him. :D

[Sherri]

Thanks silver...this AM he is doing fine & hanging with the other clown. He still isn't as active as the other...but he is the smaller of the two smalls! Will keep a watch on him. Appreciate the help.

[Reef69]

Im sure he will be fine, just getting used to your tank..please keep me posted Sherri..

[Sherri]

Wouldn't eat any flake this am - will try brine (which he did yesterday) later today. Thanks.

[Reef69]

just keep him on whatever he is comfortable eating..i know for a fact they feed brine at Aquatic warehouse

[Someone]

I would feed brine until he gets used to his surroundings (which could take a few days) . Thats what I did with mine that I got from aw about a month and a half ago. hes doing fine now. He still loves brine more than flake but the flakes are definately better for him. So what I would so is everyday try feeding them flakes first, and then see if they eat it, if they do feed them more, if not, move onto the brine. Oh yeah, mine will only eat formula 1 &2 falke foods, he won't touch any other types of flake except for those.

[CD]

Sherri-

Let me know what you manage to get them to eat also....I bought a pair at AW yesterday too, so they should be about the same size. Tried brine shrimp yesterday, and they didn't eat that - although they were still probably just adjusting to their surroundings. Tried flake today, and I noticed they nibbled on a few pieces, but not very enthusiastically. I'm probably just freaking out a bit to early, but I would feel much more comfy if they would EAT. LMK

Wendy

[Reef69]

Its very common for clowns not to eat for a few days..3 or so..so dont feak out if they dont eat..also, flakes are much better than frozen brine, brine doesnt have the proteins and vitamins as flake foods, although you will notice the AW clowns will go for brine only, unless you *train* them to eat flakes.

[Sherri]

Someone...yeah, I usally don't feed brine...all my fish are on flake Formulas 1 & 2...and frozen mysis. My other new one ate both flake & brine...he is fine & a pig.

Wendy...I had noticed at AW that one was a lot more active than the other...I get home and I also notice the one that is doing fine is almost a bright yellow - not orange...the one I'm watching is a darker orange. Are these 2 different kinds or is it because the darker one is a bit smaller than the other & will lighten up? LOL It did eat a little bit of brine, but not much. His breathing is back to normal which is a good sign. Yours is prob reacting like my one...keep me up to date on how yours is doing, k?

silver...glad I asked about this, cause I feel much better knowing it is somewhat a normal phase for them to go thru. At least it is calmer and ate a bit. The other clown chases him every once and a while, but doesn't bite - just showing its authority.

This was just new to me....I didn't go thru this when I got my black/white clowns a couple of years ago, so I thought something was wrong. Thanks everybody.

[Reef69]

ah, dont worry Sherri, clowns are very hardy fish..they are fancy damsels..the chasing will continue until they pair up..you will see alot of twitching for the next few days..the color variations are very common in ocellaris clowns, true perculas having a think, black outline..a very pronunced outline are easily distinguished, the ones you took home are ocellaris..the color in the small one might change and get brighter as he grows but not necessarily..ive seen cases where they stay a very light orange almost yellow when they mature..your clown will be fine..:)

oh, and CD..whatever happened to your clown, did the brook go away??

[CD]

Good Morning Everyone !

I just talked to Wendy a few minutes ago (i'm at work) and it sounds like we are about to have problems with another clown (#3 of 4).
I'm sure that Wendy will be posting shortly with specifics about what is happening.

Silverchair- Brook has not taken the 2nd clown but does not seem to be improving. The clown still eats and seems OK.

Chris

[CD]

This does seem a little odd that we are having such problems with the false percs.
In our old 135 fowlr tank, we had a maroon that endured a 5 hour trip in the back seat of a hot car with bad shocks and never even seemed slightly off. We have owned many fish and never had a fatality except for the carpet surfing blennie. The trigger even wound up trapped in the overflow once for many hours and didn't have problems.
I just don't get it with these false percs. If we lose these- we are done with clowns or at least false percs.

[Reef69]

well, if formalin doesnt do the trick, you can copper the heck out of brook..formalin is probably the best thing for brook, although formalin dips are good, i would really do it to fish with infested, the stress would probably do the most damage..you can try copper..and if you have the hospital tank on hypo, make sure its around 1.015 ot so..thats the way i would do it..hope this helps..

[CD]

Well - One of my new clowns is breathing harder this a.m. It doesn't look very perky...I'm just wondering if he's finally tuckered himself out (both have been swimming in the lower LH side of the tank since they came home Saturday) or...Oh cripes, I swear - if this clown dies, I'm never buying another clown again. This is just too depressing. I really don't understand what the problem could be...the yellow tang and diamond goby are healthy and happy...all the corals are doing wonderfully, water parimeters are great. I just don't understand WHAT I'm doing WRONG :-( We even changed the flow on our powerheads so that it wouldn't be too harsh for the little guys.

silverchair/Diego - The poor little brook infested perc is still hanging on to life in the hospital tank. He eats well, and almost all the spots are gone except for that frigging huge wad on his left gill opening. I wish I could just pluck that thing off of him. He's such a little trooper though. He's trying to make it, but I fear he will have gill damage even if that large spot of brook goes away. :(

I just went back to the tank since the main lights are coming on now...one perc is swimming in the lower LH side as it was yesterday, the other is breathing even more heavily and has drifted back to the rear RH side of the tank and is kind of leaning against a rock in a small cave. I put some 'brine shrimp plus' in the tank and waved it in front of the panting one's nose...he's not even paying attention to food. Should I try to coax him out of the cave? Should I just leave him alone? I fear he's gone there to die. The other one (although it looks better) is still not eating well if at all..... :cry: :cry:

Wendy

[Reef69]

Well Wendy, wild caught clowns are very problematic, sometimes they are sold already sick..a huge problem are intestinal parasites, and brook in wild caught clowns is VERY common..Joyce D. Wilkerson, who is the author of probably the best clownfish book out there says that tank bred clowns are inmune to the disease, who knows..I know for a fact that they are way stronger to diseases, you might want to try a couple of tank bred clowns..wild caught are way too problematic..

[CD]

I can totally understand about the wild caught clowns (as far as being more inclined to have parasites), but these two that I got from Aquatic Warehouse were supposed to be tank raised. They also said that these clowns spent time in quarentine after they arrived at their store. After acclamating them to our tank when we got home from the sale Sat., they didn't seem stressed at all. They both had slightly higher respiration rate during acclamation, but that subsided after they were in the display for about an hour, then went away completely. The other two existing fish in the tank (yellow tang & diamond goby) did not pester/chase them. Granted the new percs weren't eating right away, but I thought they were just trying to get used to their new surroundings rather than have an interest in food at the time. We do have a fairly aggressive water flow in our display to keep the SPS corals happy, but Chris had modified the flow on the powerheads yesterday morning to make the flow much more subdued in the front sandbed area of the tank...which it was. Didn't appear as if the new clowns were having to strain in any way to swim.

.....Well, just ran back to the tank to check on the one that was panting, and I can't find him anywhere...not in any of the caves...I just can't understand WHY this is happening... :cry:

Wendy

[Sherri]

I have some good news on mine...he just ate Formula One flakes and swimming around - not panting. He's actually "flicking" at the other clown. He still isn't as active as the other...but is ok. I don't use brine as my everyday feeding on any of my fish...but I do have it. So it was good to have in this case.

Wendy...my clown slept in the pistol shrimp/goby cave the 1st night...think it just felt safer. It slept behind the rocks last night. I'll keep my fingers crossed for yours...hope the little guy makes it. The less I'd mess with him...prob the better. I would make sure there is at least a good flow in the tank for more oxygen to flow thru its gills...?

What I forgot to say is that I had noticed a slight shredding of his fins when I got him home...but not on the other. Maybe he was stressed from something else that was in the tank with him. ?? Check yours, ok? Keep us posted. :D

[Tim Marvin]

Perculas are the hardest clowns to keep. They are also the most sought after. Maroons can survive a lot more. I would drip acclimate the perculas for a few extra hours and this helped. Try feeding flake food soaked in garlic juice. You can buy Kent garlic extreme or just go to H.E.B. and get a jar of fresh crushed garlic and use that juice.

[Reef69]

yeah, theres always certain fish thats unkeepable for some people, I couldnt keep ocellaris alive at the beginning, anything else would do great except ocellaris..now i have 3 black and white percs and 2 true perculas..they are all doing awesome..

[CD]

Well, it must be official- looks like the other clown has permanently disappeared.
Wendy hasn't seen it since earlier today and I pulled out the entire left side rockwork of the tank tonight since that's the last place she saw it.
Naturally, I didn't find it and thoroughly irritated everything in my tank at this point. My yellow tang isn't so yellow right now, the goby has to find/build a new burrow, the polyps have disappeared on the corals and my water flow is completely out of whack. :wtf:

So the big question is: should I continue tomorrow pulling the rocks out of the right side of the tank to find this expired fish and further stress all inhabitants or just wait a few days to remove the rock. Or should I just do daily water changes and possibly crash?
I personally don't like either of these options but know I can't do nothing.

Any suggestions?

Chris

[Reef69]

yeah, I suggest you dont move anything and let the tank take care of itself..your scavengers..hermits and such will eat the corpse..it wont affect your water quality to a point where it might crash..thats the bad thing about wild caught clowns..sorry to hear about your loss..

[CD]

Thanks silverchair, I appreciate it.

Just curious, did we buy wild caught this weekend at AW?
I ask because that would be the one we lost.

[Reef69]

..yep

[Reef69]

lol..im 80% sure its wild caught..they used to get a bunch from O.R.A, which is a farm in florida..

[CD]

Hmmm. Thats interesting.

I believe Wendy specifically asked about that and was told they were tank raised. I know that you cannot confirm 100% but you do know their suppliers.
You already know the situation with our other wild caught clowns which is why we didn't want wild caught again..

I know I am asking a question that you probably don't wish to answer, especially in public, but why don't you work for AW any more?
Maybe I should clarify- is there some issue with their morals?
Sorry if I am going somewhere I shouldn't be going and I apologize.
I'm just a little curious due to your previous response.

[Reef69]

Hey, alot of people ask me that..its cool..Tamer and Ivan are awesome guys to work with..I spent more time working with Tamer than I did with Ivan since I worked week days..tuesday Through Thursday..Tamer is a great guy, I learned alot of things from him..he knows everything when it comes to big fish..Ivan is awesome too, i learned alot of things thanks to him aswell..they are really good guys and always willing to help..i know about a few customers that were real d..cks..Tamer and Ivan went to extremes to please them..real cool guys, who know what they are talking about when it comes to reefing...reason i left was i got a job offer from my brother...family comes first, plus the money is really good so..lol

[CD]

I understand completely. Family is a top priority.

I have never had a reason to feel as if there was a morality problem at AW but I had to ask anyway. Just concerned that we may have been mislead but had no basis for that other than our own bad luck.
Thanks for answering my question.

[Reef69]

dont let a clown put you down..dont want to sound like a murderer but it took me 3 clowns to get it right..lol..but of course, when i first started i used to buy them at petco..LMAO..big no no...you will get a hang of it..they can be tricky..since they dont eat for the first days they are introduces..sometimes they wont eat at all and die..alot of the times they have intestinal parasites..when they crap white..and thats a big problem also..so wild caught clowns are very dificult fish IMO..theres a site where they sell the most parasite clean, fat and healthy clowns ive ever heard of..of course you have to pay more..www.clownfishdirect.com , check out the *rare* onix percs..

[Sherri]

I thought these were tank raised also.... :shock:

[CD]

I thought these were tank raised also....


Yeah...not a very nice surprise, eh? I doubt I would've purchased them if I would've known that.

Just a little update: After tearing half the LR out of our tank last night looking for the corpse of the perc that I feel sure didn't make it, the other fish in our tank looked *really* ticked off...and the remaining perc looked like he was going to croak too (he was panting so hard, I was sure he wouldn't make it). Well, I found my old fry cage that I had when I raised swordtails (FW), cleaned it up, hung it on the side of our display between a powerhead and the overflow, and placed the perc in there with a small clump of macro so it wouldn't seem so much like "jail". He didn't seem to like it very much at first, and I half expected to wake up to yet another dead perc this morning. So far just the atinics are on, but the little guy is peacefully swimming around in his little enclosure, and the tang and goby seem to be their old selves again. The main lights have come on, and I have tried both flake and frozen brine shrimp plus, but the perc in the fry cage appears to continue to have no interest in food. I guess that will be the most important accomplishment right now, but he does seem to be MUCH calmer. This makes me wonder....could the aggressive water flow in our tank be the reason these clowns are stressing so badly? The first pair of false percs we purchased seemed to LOVE the flow, as they would play in it constantly as if it were a game, and they ate like wee pigs. Those two were in the display tank for about 10 days before the brooklynella showed up. Since the display had been "clown free" for a month (I read that the protozoan would die off in this amount of time), I thought we could try another pair of clowns. The second set from AW looked healthy, although they were smaller. After we acclamated them to the display water (very slowly), they stayed in the lower LH corner, but always swimming (day and night) with their heads pointed into the flow of the water. Even though we have *many* caves in our aquascaping, they never tried to seek cover in the safety of the caves. THIS is what makes me wonder about the water flow possibly stressing them out. The clown residing in the hospital tank (hyper salinity with formalin treatment) is still eating well and quite perky...he actually eats out of my hand, and is quite the little trooper. The brook doesn't look quite as bad, so hopefully he is going to make it. If I can coax the newer perc in the fry container to eat, I'm sure he will make it too...but this begs the question: Is it the water flow making them stress?

Diego- did you change anything in your tanks from when they were dying on you to your current status of being able to keep them alive?

Sherri- are your clowns in the reef tank or the nano? Are they eating well yet?

I apologise to all about the lengthy posts, but this situation is HORRIBLY upsetting for me. I love all animals, and would NEVER have bought these clowns if I didn't think they were going to live a long and happy life. Anybody else have any comments? Suggestions? Would anybody successful in clown husbantry consider coming over to view our tank set up for possible pointers? P-L-E-A-S-E??? I am at my wit's end. :cry:

Wendy

[JimD]

Tank raised perks for &7? Probably not. Wild Percs (clowns in general) can be a real challange and some never discover the secret if there is one. My suggestion is to allow your system to stablize for at least another week, moving rocks around so aggressivly is disturbing the chemistry and most likely stressing the inhabitants, not just the fish. Been there, done that. If the remaining clown survives, great, however, if it doesnt, I wouldnt attempt wild cought again, Partners in Round Rock usually has a decent selection of tank raised clowns, actually, the Petco off of Brodie in South Austin has had some pretty nice Ora clowns, check it out!

[CD]

Thank you, Jim...
If both the percs survive (the one in the fry enclosure & the one in the hospital tank), I will be soooo happy. If they don't, I doubt seriously I will be eager to get another pair - even if they are tank raised - until I can figure out why they are getting stressed in our display tank. Maybe it's just due to the fact that we've ended up with wild caught both times, but if I can't be sure, I don't want to risk losing any more fish.
I have been keeping a very watchful eye on all inhabitants in the tank, and all the corals look happy, the other fish are doing well and eating like pigs (with the exception of the newest clown), and all the inverts are doing their thing as normal. I did notice that our PH increased to about 8.32 after the rock move, and has stayed there. That's good, as it was generally hovering around 8.20 prior to that. I think Chris is really worried about the tank crashing and recycling now due to the fact that we cannot find the little clown that expired yesterday. He's going to run a full test on the water quality when he gets home, and probably do a 10 to 15% water change afterwards.

Wendy

[JimD]

Wendy, dont frett too much about the lost fish, your system will recover, Id be interested in the test results and water cganges are a good idea. Im betting an escalated ammonia reading, not because of the dead fish, but because of the sand disturbance.

[Reef69]

Hey Wendy..the only wild caught clowns i can keep are the 2 true perculas that are in my 25 gal..the 3 black and white ocellaris i have in my 90 are from O.R.A..there is no secret or catch to keeping clowns..just luck...I know people that cant keep cradinals or gobies..some cant keep clowns..I would be happy to keep a pair for you here in my tanks, see them thrive and get fat..then you could take them home..please keep this as an option...

[Sherri]

Wendy...Both of mine were put into my 30 gal...I have a pair of black/whites I've had in my 100 gal reef for almost 2 yrs now that just had their first spawning. I've never had ANY probs with them at all...They are beautiful and will feed out of my hands. I plan on keeping these new clowns in my 30. As for the newbies...the one I had been worried about ate flake again today and is swimming around "flicking" at the other which has had no problem at all. He doesn't have the personality that the ok one has...but it's coming...

It seemed to me that both of mine liked the flow & they "ride the wave". One thing I didn't do was disturb anything in the tank. I let him settle (even if it were in the rocks). Of course, all I have in the tank with them is a tiger pistol shrimp & a watchman goby. That's all I plan on putting in the tank...so basically it will be their tank. Diego initally told me to leave him alone...maybe that's what helped.

Scavengers in your tank will prob jump on disposing of the dead clown. I lost a small yellow tang from being harrassed by my blue regal - didn't look for him and had no fluxuation(sp?!) in any of my levels. What scavengers do you have in the tank?

Hope the other little one pulls through...

[Reef69]

yeah, all the hermits will eat him up and wont cause a spike in your tank..if it does..i would be minimal and wouldnt harm anything..

[CD]

Wendy, dont frett too much about the lost fish, your system will recover, Id be interested in the test results and water cganges are a good idea. Im betting an escalated ammonia reading, not because of the dead fish, but because of the sand disturbance.

JimD-

My test results before water change tonight:

SG 1.026
temp 77.9
ph 8.33
ammonia 0
nitrites .1
nitrates 0
phosphates .1
calcium 400
kh 10.6 dKH

Changed 10G of water.

Jim- I may need to get with you sometime so you can help me deal with these pics. We can get them right if we deal with them together.
As you can see, I haven't accomplished much with them the last 2 evenings and have company coming in from Midland this weekend.

Silver and Sherri- As for scavengers in the tank, we are VERY low. 3 hermits and about 15 small nassarius snails. Have some turbos but won't really help in this respect. I really need more critters I guess.

Chris

[Reef69]

GROUP ORDER!!!!..lol..jk

[CD]

silverchair-

Are you really kidding? I am up for an order if you and maybe one other person wants to go in.

C.

[Reef69]

well..would be hard since yall are in austin...

[CD]

well..would be hard since yall are in austin...

I know where San Antonio is- I left a trail of bread crumbs. LOL :grin:

[CD]

I would be happy to keep a pair for you here in my tanks, see them thrive and get fat..then you could take them home..please keep this as an option...


Diego - That is so very sweet of you to offer! I wish you lived here in Austin...I would probably take you up on that option. I may still, at a later date. Lets just see what happens with the two I have for now. I will keep you posted on their progress. The newest (surviving) clown still refuses to eat. I've offered two different types of flake (Formula I and II) and the frozen brine shrimp plus, but to no avail. I hope it eats soon, otherwise I'm sure it will perish from lack of nutrition. The clown in the hospital tank seems to be doing better, and the mass on it's gill area...well, although the mass hasn't diminished in size, it looks to be a pale/opaque beige rather than the bright white like it was. Do you think that means the treatment may be starting to work? Ohhh, I hope so!!!

Sherri - Thank you so much for your concern also...I really appreciate it.
As far as disturbing anything in the tank, we didn't do anything other than put food in the tank until *after* I was sure the perc was dying when I woke up that morning. At the point when it couldn't even swim under it's own power and was basically being "blown" around the tank by the water flow (it also paled in color very quickly), is when I tried to hand feed it. I left the room we keep the tank in for probably 5 minutes to come check the 'puter to see if anybody had suggestions here, and when I got back, the little one was nowhere to be found. After spending 3+ hours periodically checking all the nooks/crannys & caves without seeing him pretty much confirmed he had died. Once Chris got home from work, he started moving rock around to try and find the corpse because he felt that the tank would crash and recycle if the body wasn't removed. We wouldn't have even considered moving the rock if we thought there were any chance at all that it was just hiding somewhere. Trying to rearrange the rock was almost a disaster too. <sigh> Keep your fingers crossed for me? :)

Wendy

[Reef69]

well, all parasites are hard to remove, non will disappear over night..(non that i know of)..it takes time, it took my black and white clown over 3 weeks to get the brook off..as for the other clown you have..try soaking the food in garlic extract..that will open his appetite and therefore eat..have you thought of putting him in the hospital tank..?..and feed them both food soaked on garlic..garlic will also boost their inmune system..and make them stronger against any paraistes out there..and on the clowns for the future..it would be my pleasure to quarentine them myself..i know how bad it feels to want some clowns and not being able to keep them..keep that as an option..ok?

[CD]

it took my black and white clown over 3 weeks


The clown with brook has been in the hospital for a month and 5 days (started Sept. 30th). Today, the mass on his gill area is even more opaque and seems to be getting....hmmm...looser? Not quite as compact? However the *size* of the mass remains the same. I am feeding him both the Formula II with garlic and the frozen brine shrimp plus...both of which he gobbles up eagerly.



try soaking the food in garlic


The Formula II flake I am trying to feed has garlic, but doesn't seem to affect the new clown's appetite. Tried all three kinds of flake/frozen this morning, and *still* not appearing to have any interest. It does still look very calm though. No heavy breathing, swimming normally, interested in seeing me/surroundings...just not eating. At least not while I am watching. It may be picking up bites at the bottom of the fry cage when I'm not looking. Did AW feed their fish live or frozen? If it is live food, maybe the fact that nothing is "wiggling" is the problem?



thought of putting him in the hospital tank..?..


Awww, cripes no. We are doing the hyper salinity as you suggested, and it took *awhile* to slowly get the salinity to that point, as we didn't want to put the little guy into shock. I'm still adding the formalin every other day, and we plan on doing a partial water change tonight. I wouldn't want to put the newer clown in there b/c he doesn't need the hyper salinity and the formalin...he just needs to EAT. Plus, wouldn't he catch the brook since the other isn't cured yet???



how bad it feels to want some clowns and not being able to keep them..keep that as an option..ok?


It does, and I will. Again, I sincerely thank you for your offer and concern :)

Wendy

[Reef69]

hehe, hyposalinity...not hyper..:p .. well, maybe he has intestinal parasites, thats why he may no be eating...at this point all i would do is maybe treat for intestinal bugs, but i think that would be too much...

[CD]

hehe, hyposalinity...not hyper..:p


<giggles> Well, thats what happens when I post without being fully...er...alert :oops:

I'm usually a pretty good spaeller (hehehe). Anyway, since I haven't actually seen him poo (you said it w/b white with intestinal parisites?), I can't be sure...If I'm not sure, I just can't feel good about subjecting him to the added stress of treatment if there is possibly nothing to treat. This being the fifth day since I purchased him, I'm beginning to wonder...how long can the little bugger go without eating before he keels over? He doesn't look emaciated or anything. :wtf:

Wendy

[Reef69]

not more than 7 i would say...

[Tim Marvin]

It must be eating then if it isn't skinny. Gallery sells ORA perculas if you need another pair. Order from them, and take them still bagged. I'll teach you how to drip acclimate and you can drip them for 8-10 hours if there is a next time. This will give them the best chance for survival.

[Reef69]

yeah, i agree with Tim, he must be eating something..but if you get ORA percs, chances are they will be bullet proof..

speaking of clowns..dont want to take over the thread but..ive been thinking about purchasing an onyx perc..i saw inland aquatic sells them but they only sell the pair for like $160.00..any other places where i could find them??

[Sherri]

Looks as tho my little guy is just fine. Whew...he is eating both Formula flakes and swimming normal. Even getting a bit of a personality now. Thanks for all the help you guys...learned a lot this go around. Wendy...how is your little guy this AM?

[sharkie]

okay... what is ORA?

chiu

[Reef69]

AWESOME Sherri, Im glad your clown is back to being a clown..if there is anything else in the futre regarding clowns, please dont hesitate to ask, im always willing to help :)..

O.R.A means oceans reefs and aquariums..its a fish farm in Florida where they breed mostly clowns, some gobies , clams and other inverts... www.orafarm.com

[Tim Marvin]

They have good healthy fish, but not perfect stripes or color. They usually come very fat and healthy!

[Sherri]

Thanks Diego...you kept me calm! hehe :D Ya just keep learnin....

[Reef69]

you are very welcome Sherri..:)

yeah, sometimes you might find clowns without all the bars, or mis-bar clowns, i believe nutrition is the one to blame for the clowns not having all 3 white bars..

[CD]

I'll teach you how to drip acclimate and you can drip them for 8-10 hours if there is a next time. This will give them the best chance for survival.


Thank you, Tim!!! WOW...8-10 hours? We've been doing about one to one and a half hrs....You think that's the problem? Wouldn't being in the bag that long stress them out even more? Oh well, hopefully the two I have are going to make it. If they do, I hope they don't fight with each other when they meet, as the clown fighting the brook is quite a bit larger than the newer one from AW.



Wendy...how is your little guy this AM?


Well, he looks about the same as he did yesterday. Putting 4 different types of food in there now and cleaning the fry enclosure he is in every other day (it gets yucky pretty quickly). Still haven't actually witnessed him eating anything, but he isn't getting any skinnier either. He's swimming well & alert...still got my fingers crossed!!

Oh, and Chris brought a female Velvet Fairy Wrasse home yesterday. She's beautiful! Adjusted to her surroundings well, and even ate within an hour after she was released into the tank. Providing both the clowns make it, that will probably be the extent of the fish we put in there. We could use some more inverts though (clean up crew) and I would LOVE to get a few cleaner shrimp...everything I read about the shrimp say they are hard to acclimate. True? Aren't they supposed to be drip acclimated?

Wendy

[Reef69]

well, about the 8-10 hour acclimation...IMO..the water in the bag when you buy the clown, might be high in ammonia since its such a small place it might get polluted real quick..I suppose you would be adding a pump and an airstone to the bag, oxygen will make the PH and the amminia levels spike real quick, therefor killing the fish..i would do an hour, maybe 2 hour drip, slowly but constant, without an airstone, that should do just perfect..

And yes, shrimp, like all inverts, should be dripped slowly..take your time with those guys..

[CD]

And yes, shrimp, like all inverts, should be dripped slowly..take your time with those guys..


OK...How much time? Should I put an airstone in their bag while doing this? I've never had to "drip acclimate" anything. Tell me how, Yoda...I don't wanna mess this up! :)



the amminia


Heheh...and you're giving ME sh*t about spelling? ;)

Wendy

[Reef69]

hahaha..amminia is a mix between ammonia and bulimia!!!..lol

i wouldnt recommend the airstone thingy..since the water they are bagged in isnt very clean, the oxygen produced by the airstone might spike up the PH and the ammonia..usually i drip my inverts for an hour and a half ..2 hours tops..

How to drip..according to Me..lol

Get some airline tubbing and a little air valve..cut the airline in half and plug the 2 airlines into the valve..open all the valve..crate a syphon from the tank to the bag..then adjust the valve to create a drip..not too fast nor too slow..just a constant 1 second interval drip..maybe a bit faster..do so for hour and a half..or two hours..if the bag gets full, empty some water from the bag until its been 2 hours..the drip of the water will create a little bit of water movement, that way your critter will have enough oxygen..

DISCLAIMER : I by no means am a fishologist, thats just the way i do things and work out for me..:d

[CD]

Thank you, Diego!!
When I can afford some shrimp, I'll let you know how it goes!

OH, hey.....UPDATE! I caught the little clown E-A-T-I-N-G yesterday. Should've seen me...I was doing the Snoopy dance I was so happy! Now if I can just defeat the brook on the other clown, I will be sooooo extra happy :)

Wendy

[Reef69]

see??..just keep medicating the other clown in the hospital tank..feed him well and he should do just fine..

[Sherri]

Great! :D

[Tim Marvin]

Drip acclimating:
1. Tiny valve like you use on an RO/DI unit.
2. Rigid tubing to fit valve.
Connect the tubing to both ends of the valve. Place one end of the tubing into the tank and fasten it so it will not fall out. Open valve all the way and start a siphon, close valve until you get one drop per second or slightly less. Place your shipped livestock into one of your empty, clean salt buckets. Cut the bags open and dispose of the shipping bag leaving the livestock in the bucket. Add a couple drops of de-chlorinizer/ ammonia remover to the bucket. place the other end of your drip line near the top of the bucket so you will get a good ripple effect.This method has worked excellent for me on wild caught clowns, batfish, CBB, and other delicate fish. I'm not saying this is the best way, but it has worked on hundreds of delicate fish that I have brought in. Most of the wholesalers claim to use this method and they are getting shipments in the 24 to 30 hour old range.
NEVER ADD AIRSTONES! This will raise the PH causeing the lower PH in the blood to burn the gills of the fish when exchanging gases due to the acidic nature of the lowered PH level in the blood. Doing this will surely kill the fish by suffocation over a few days to a week. Your fish will probably survive from a super fast drip method of say 2-3 hours, but the longer you can drip the less scarring the gills will receive. I am going to stick to at least 8 hours of dripping for delicate fish being shipped for anything over 12 hours. If you are getting the fish from a LFS you are at the mercy of whatever technique they use.
A drip acclimating is useless if you are bringing it from the store. Simply float, add a little water every 10 minutes until you have doubled the volume, then release. Try not to add any of the bagged water to your tank.
Also, by doing this slow drip I have had very few disease outbreaks, The fish will usually eat while still in the bucket and definately as soon as they are placed in the system.

[CD]

Tim-
Thank you VERY much for typing out all that info!!! You are always there for us, and it is greatly appreciated:)

Diego & Sherri-
Thank you very much also! I know I'm still not "out of the woods" with these two clowns *yet*, but I feel like both of them are over the worst parts & will do better and better every day.

Wendy

[Sherri]

Well....after all this....my little guy died this morning...noticed him off by himself yesterday. He was never as "perky" as the other...guess he never did pull out of it. What a drag....hate losing anything...especially a clown... :(

[CD]

Sorry to hear that, Sherri :(
Is the other clown still doing OK? Eating well? I just think these little f. percs weren't very hardy to begin with. Are you going to get another clown?

The remaining clown I bought from AW is still in the fry cage that I hung inside the tank. I just don't think he is strong enough or large enough to compete with the other fish when I'm feeding. He's still obviously eating something, although I rarely see him eat...and I offer a nice variety too.
The clown in the hospital tank has *almost* gotten rid of all signs of the brook...the only spot remaining is the one on it's gill area, but the *size* of the protozoan mass is about 1/5 the size that it was (almost gone). I am so grateful for everybody's suggestions. All in all I would say that the formalin *helps*, but after watching his progress as closely as I have, I would say the lowering of the salinity had the most marked effect on killing off the protozoan.
Oh, and we were blessed with yet *another* clown from a friend (false perc) recently. We did the drip acclimation on him, and he is happy and healthy in our tank. I see him visiting the little baby in the fry container frequently...I think that by them being buddies, that the smaller one is gaining a stronger desire to live, and seems to be doing better. I just wish the little guy would eat as heartily as the rest of our fish!

Wendy

[Sherri]

Thanks Wendy....yeah, I'll prob get another...but I will make sure it is healthy before I do. My other is great - no probs at all. But alone... Will have to look around and find the right one.

Glad to hear the clown is doing better with the brook. Didn't realize that your little guy is still not up to par. Hope he hangs in there...

[Reef69]

Im sorry to hear that Sherri, but like I told Wendy, I can keep one for you for a week or so..make sure hes fine, get him a bit fat, and then hand it over to Ya..lemme know