Unhealthy new clown

[Crab Rangoon]

I picked up a true perc on Sat from a LFS in SA, and a few hours later he made it into my tank after acclimation (I say hours because we didn't get home for a good while, but they packed it to last a while). It seemed to be doing fine, other than the Wrasse really going after him after he noticed the new tankmate. Turned the light off to let it, and some corals, settle in with less stress that evening. Anyhow, since then, he's just stayed in the upper corner, where the most waterflow is, swimming in place against the current. Sometimes he swims a little funny, straight up, kinda tiltd, etc, the kinda swim that makes us put em in QT @ the store. He eats, quite eagerly, and goes anywhere for food, but then returns to the corner, unless the moonlights on, then he just treads under the moonlight. Any suggestions? Is my clown doomed? If its condition is worsened tomorrow, I'd planned on just going for a dip, since it doesnt seem like I have much more to loose :\

[MikeDeL]

How long did you acclimate him for? Did you make sure that the SG of your fish matched the tank? If so he might just be getting used to his new home. My clown comes out during the day and swims around, but at night he parks himself right next to my power head nozzle. If he is activly seeking food and eating when you put food in there I wouldnt worry too much. Just give him a few more days to settle down. It took my clown 3 or 4 days before he started to get real adventurous.


Mike

[GaryP]

Try soaking the food in garlic juice. That seems to help their immune system. Do you see any indications of any diseases or parasites?

Gary

[Richard]

I would not recommed the dip if he is eating well and has no obvious parasite problems. Given that your wrasse (what kind?) was going after him he may just be intimidated. Strange swimming behaviour is not that unusual with clowns. Typically they will stay up in the corners and get very faded colors when they are intimidated.

[CD]

I'd agree with Richard on the *no dip*, as it will add more stress to an already stressful situation for the little guy. I would also be curious to know what kind of wrasse it is...most wrasses are a good bit more aggressive than your perc, and they may *never* get along. You may end up having to choose which fish you like best, and find the other a good home. Gary's suggestion is good too...the healthier the perc stays (good food), the less likely he will catch some nasty parasites/protozoans problem. Also, if the tank is small and there is no place for the perc to hide (anemone/rock cave/etc.) this may not be a good situation for him anyway.

Wendy

[Crab Rangoon]

only bad visual is that he swims awkwardly IMO, and that the wrasse seems to have nibbled on his dorsal a tiny bit. other than that, its the same as when I purchased him, and yes, he actively eats, and I'm gonna wait it out now. the wrasse is a sixline, and attacks anything that isn't a coral, so far its gone after my new electric orange hermit (which does a great job), my anemone crab, and even a snail and some micro stars, but after their first day in the tank, he leaves them all alone. hope he gets comfy over the next couple of days, and maybe by then my sebae will have come back out from hiding too, for him to play in. :\
And just for the sake of knowing: there is plenty of ins and outs to my liverock structure, and I've got 2 anemones. I've got an anemone crab that is very laid back and goes back and forth between my anemones, and I'm supposed to be getting sexy shrimp as well, will these anemone-dwelling inverts pose any kinda complication to the clown, or vice versa?

[Tim Marvin]

It sounds scared to me. Don't stress it out any more. Like everyone else stated if he is eating leave it alone. You can also put a net in there and put the wrasse in it. This is sorta like jail for the wrasse and that will let the clown get adjusted.

[CD]

Randy-
I've gotta ask...are all these critters going into a 10G SW tank? First thing I'd like to mention is that the *minimum* aquarium size recommendations for a sixline are 20G. Notes: They may eat ornamental shrimps. Although they are not quite as aggressive as some other wrasses, they will often behave aggressively toward shy/inoffensive species (your perc is a good example of this catagory)...also, the sexy shrimp you are planning on getting may end up as food for your wrasse.
I've got this great book that you may want to look into getting. Gives you over 500 aquarium fish species with info such as favorite foods , reef compatibility, max. size of each species, and captive care recommendations. Its great as a quick reference when planning on new fish. "Marine Fishes - a pocket expert guide" by Sott W. Michael.

Wendy

[Richard]

I'm not too fond of sixline wrasses. IME they are hit or miss. Some are relatively peaceful while others think they are pit bulls. Sounds like you got the latter. I would try trading him for another one or maybe a more peaceful small wrasse (any Fairy wrasse, yellow coris) or relocating him to a tank with tougher tankmates.

I would not be too concerned about awkward swimming on a percula, they are called clownfish for a reason. IME some clownfish (maroons, tomatos) do ok with tougher tankmates just kinda laying low until they get a little size on them and then beating the s*** out of the bully. Small Perculas & Ocellaris however tend to just fade away and die if they are constantly intimidated so I would also recommend you remove either the wrasse or the clown.

[sharkie]

Sorry to hear about the clown. It sounds like your wrasse is mean! I'm sure that it doesn't help that your clown is a little more than 1/4" long. :)

Let me know if you want to get rid of the clown, it would look perfect in my tank. ;)

LOL!

BTW, are the shells big enough for your calvus/comp.?

chiu

[Crab Rangoon]

Hm, sounds all logical, since I wasn't too sure I'd be keeping the sixline wrasse forever in the first place, and I'd never originally planned on getting clowns, but now that I want a second while their still young, and would be new to the tank, and I wouldn't want the wrasse to beat on it too. I knew that Sixline Wrasse were recommended for a 20G, but he's tiny, and I haven't noticed any real growth on him, still about 1.25-1.5", and my perc is like the size of a penny.
Wendy, thanks for the suggestion, I'm not REAL fond of the book we have up at the store thats a marine directory, as it only has like 3 blennys, 1 boxfish, 1 jawfish, etc etc, didn't impress me. I'll look around for that pocket guide.
Richard - The perc most scared me in that it doesnt seem to sleep at night. Anytime I walk by and the lunar light is on, the perc is treading up at the surface right beneath the LED. Everything else I've ever had (that wasn't nocturnal) actually turned in for the night, but it seems the clown does nothing but swim up top :\
Chiu - psh, want a sixline wrasse? :-p

[GaryP]

Ever thought about getting the clown an anemone to hide out in? I doubt the sixline would dive into an anemone to harass the clown. If its a tank raised clown it might take it a while to mate with the anemone.

Gary

[Tim Marvin]

I'll take the sixline

[Crab Rangoon]

There are currently 2 anemone's in the tank, they have been since day 1. And I'm not sure of how quickly I'm gonna be outing the wrasse. I'm sure I'll post it up on here when I do though.

[Reef69]

sounds like a small clown..never did read why you would dip him...perculas, ocellaris and marrons are really bad swimmers, ..tomatos and clarkiis have different body types so they are better swimmers..whats the population in your tank??

[matt]

You've received GREAT info on this thread, especially by Richard who's a real expert. But, I don't read anywhere that you've answered the big question, which is do you really have a sixline and a clown and two anemones in a 10 gallon? If so, you're just begging for trouble. Depending on what type of anemones you're talking about, you're breaking every rule about sensible stocking that's out there. I'm amazed your anemones haven't destroyed each other already, although it's quite possible that I'm missing something. In my old 10 gallon, I had a single BTA that took over the tank, and a series of single clowns that I had to keep taking out and giving to friends when they outgrew the tank. And this was a tank connected to a sump/refugium with a decent skimmer. From what I understand, sebae anemones are VERY aggressive and can grow to a size totally inappropriate for a nano. (If I'm not mistaken, its H. crispa- oral disc 200-500mm in diameter, if i am mistaken, I apologize) 500 mm is 19", or the entire length of a 10 gallon tank. I'm not trying to flame you here, and I fully understand that I haven't seen your set up. But, you must understand the typical reaction you'd get describing a nano stocked this way.

[Instar]

I agree with Matt and others who say the tank size is the issue. If the normal territory for the six line male to defend is 6 feet or more, then a 10 gallon will be all (as in 100%) his. You also have a baby perc and that probably means farm raised. These don't readily take to reefs and rock because they have never seen sand, rocks, or other fish in their hatchery home so all they know is the side of a container. The six lined wrasse will likely end the winner and the clown in a body bag unless you do something now. Baby clowns don't have the body weight to compete or the maturity to try defending themselves from some aggression.

[GaryP]

Randy,

Listen to Larry, he's our resident clown expert, among other things.

Gary

[Crab Rangoon]

matt- didn't know my stock was questioned, but yes, I do have 2 anemone's, a sixline wrasse, and a true perc in the ten gallon, among other things. Most of the life in this tank is going to be moving into a 50 gallon setup sometime before X-mas.

silverchair- the population of my tank is 1 1.75" sixline wrasse, 1 .75" true percula clownfish, 1 .75" yellow clown goby, 2 ~.5" sexy shrimp, 1 1" anemone crab, 2 turbos, 2 nerites, 2 margaritahs, 1 sand dollar (supposedly), 1 2" purple nudibranch, random single button polyps, 3 small xenia frags, 1 3-4" green brain/moon/pineapple coral, 1 1.5" LTA, 1 sm sebae anemone, 1 mushroom frag, 1 red zoo frag, 1 green star polyp frag, 1 a.c. sm toadstool leather. water tests always come out good, water changes w/DI water, good water circulation, and a 40w PC.

Instar- about the sixline wrasse: he's not that much of an aggressor. Whenever something new is introduced to the tank with lights on and no actions taken to comfort new additions, he swims up and nitpicks at it, he was more-so aggressive to the clown, so I turned out the light after watching him off/on snap at the clown for a few minutes. But, he has never chased after or nipped at any of the life in my tank AFTER their introduction. The perc and the sixline both eat side by side, just fine, the perc doesn't fear the wrasse, and the wrasse shows no signs of aggression to the clown either. The wrasse doesnt seem territorial, except for when something brand new drops in the tank, so far, anything that has survived meeting him, has continued to survive, encounter free. I wasn't ever worried that the wrasse was going to oust the clown, I was worried something was wrong with the clown. I've seen a new clown come in from a shipment, after a day or two of being acclimated, swims funny, similar to mine, and goes down for the count, no aggression involved. Last time this happened, we dipped the clown due to signs of sickness, and as far as I know, it survived; the rest of the funny swimmers did not. Thats why I thought .oO(hmm, swims funny, must be about to die, maybe I should try dipping him before he dies.)

Thanks all for the comments and suggestions on this post, I was looking for just that. Just because I'm leaving my stock as is for the time being, and not removing my wrasse, doesn't mean I am trying to defy you, or think I know better. But, until I see any activity to remove my wrasse any sooner than planned, I think I'll keep him in the tank. The sexy shrimp and yellow clown goby that went in the tank today went in with the light off, and he has passed them all by without giving them a second look, no nips, no chase. Sorry for the long winded/typed message, I'm not trying to be smart about all this, I'm just trying to be clear, since it seems I didn't come across 100% to everybody reading this with my previous messages.

[Reef69]

The fact that the water parameters come out good doesnt mean that the animals are happy..sebae anemones are really hard to keep..and i agree, they are very territorial..LTA have their special needs too..that sounds like an over stocked tank to me and you should seriously think about removing something. This sounds just like whe people try to add tangs to their 20 gal. tanks..i would suggest you dotn add anything else until you have your 55 gal. running. IMO

[Crab Rangoon]

Didn't plan on adding anything else till the 50, and I could understand it sounding overstocked, though I see a LOT more stuff in other nanos of the same size. Everything I've got is small, and I'm aware of the full size each things achieves in the longrun, how fast/slow they grow, but I also know that most of the stuff is moving into the 50 gallon or a nano-cube in the near future. So, temporarily contained in the 10, it doesnt seem so bad. And as far as my sebae, all I've seen it do is stay on its own end of the tank, keeping away from everything else. Now it sits behind my liverock, instead of out in the open directly under the light. In this spot, it does get light, and its fully spread open, rather than retracted, and its bright as well, rather than dull or limp. Should it be more aggressive than what I'm describing?