Dinoflagellates

[GaryP]

OK all you gurus and gurettes. I have the beginnings of a dinoflagellate bloom in my SPS tank that is doing a number on my snails. Other than killing my snails and choking out some coraline algae I'm not having any other major problems as a result of the bloom.

I'm dripping Kalk as we speak to get my pH up to about 8.6 and running carbon and a phosphate absorber. What am I missing? Any other suggestions? Man alive, I'm just going through one pest outbreak after another. I'm scratching my head wondering what's causing this.

Thanks,
Gary

[JimD]

Gary, bringing the Ph up to 8.6 is the first step in the battle, siphoning is the second. When you get a chance, Id be curious to know what your present P04, Dkh and Ca levels are. Dino's are a real b''ch to get rid of, patience is the name of the game. You said yesterday that your fuge is newly set up? It may take some time for it to mature before you get a grip on the Dinos. It WILL go away, trust me...

[GaryP]

I've been out of town a lot lately and my water chemistry has suffered. I've been running PO4 absorber for a couple of weeks so I doubt that its very high. I don't really run phosphates on a regular basis because of their unreliability. I put in fresh carbon and phosphate absorber on Sat. Phosphates may have caused the onset of the bloom though. My calcium was down to 350 and dkH was at 6 on Saturday. I got the dKH up to 10 yesterday and will check the calcium again after the kalk drip is finished. I also did a 10% water change this weekend.

[JimD]

eeks, Alk at 6, not good, definately an invitation for algae blooms like Dino's, need to get that up to like 12-14 temporarily, also, the P04 may be immeasurable due to its consumption by the algae. "doubt that its very high" any trace is algae food. It took me every bit of four months to get my Dinos under control, three of those months was used up by research.

[GaryP]

Jim,

At least I'm ahead of you on the research. Alk. was up to 12 yesterday after adding buffer for a couple of days. I normally try to keep it at least 8.

As for phosphate, I have been running absorber for the last month.

I tried siphoning off the dinos when I did a water change. I may have to resort to a high tech method of removal, such as a tooth brush.

Gary

[JimD]

lol, might wanna consider dropping back on your photo period while youre adjusting the perams for Dino Destruction!... After all, they are photosynthetic...

[GaryP]

Drop back to how many hours? I'll give them one thing, they are some oxygen generating little guys.

Gary

[Richard]

Did you add any new liverock recently?

[GaryP]

No new liverock.

Gary

[JimD]

Couple of hours at least!

[Richard]

The reason I asked about liverock is that IME when this pops up on established tanks it is following the addition of liverock (even if it is well cured) or when the sandbed is greatly disturbed. Other things to consider are:
1.) How old are your lights? Forgetting to change bulbs is one of those 'gotchas' that have caused people alot of headaches - including me.
2.) Are you sure your source water is good i.e. checked with a TDS meter.

One of these days I'll convince you to try the STOP method and you won't have to work so hard to enjoy your tank.

[dan]

what are these nidoflages? never heard of these. do they go under another name?

[Richard]

Similar to diatoms or cyanobacteria i.e. Brown Slime algae. Honestly, I'm not sure if you can positively ID dinoflagellates without using a microscope. Could be wrong though.

Other types of dinoflagellates
RED TIDE - OH BAD!
Zooxanthellae - OH PRETTY!

[jenreadsalot]

What is the STOP method?

[GaryP]

Richard,

I just changed the MH's (2 X 250 watt) and I am getting ready to change the VHO actinics. The MH's were a year old. My RO unit does need to be changed. That's what I suspect.

Dan,

Here is an article on dinos. I believe ICH is a dinoflagellate as well. Certainly some of the fish parasites are (Pfisteria).

http://web.archive.org/web/20020815114305/www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1998/nov/wb/default.asp

Gary

[Andrew]

zooxanthellae=brown (sorry Richard, couldn't resist)
other pigments are responsible for the bright colors in coral

But, you are correct on the second account; often, not even a light microscope can identify dinoflagellates to the species level, usually need an electron micrograph.


Gary, it could be possible your snails are dying and fueling the growth of diatoms, they're pretty nasty when they die, or like you said they could just be dying as a result of some other problem. One thing I've been doing lately before adding snails to the tank, is checking them for pyramid snails, which often use many types of snails as hosts.

Don't know if this helps, just a thought.

IT's often something simple. The RO would be my guess too, I've run old actinics 1.5 years + without problems (although I wouldn't advocate it-the intensity really drops off).

Andrew

[GaryP]

The common ID for dinos are the bubbles trapped in the biomass, although hair algae can do the same.

I'm pretty sure its dinoflagellates. I'm afraid that Andrew is correct, the dead snails just fuel the problem and it becomes a vicious cycle. I'm anxious to see what raising the pH will do. I guess I need to stock up on Kalk. I'm doing everything I can do increase nutrient export (mechanical filtering, carbon, phosphate absorber, and aggressive skimming.) I'll order new cartridges for the RO this weekend. The funny thing about the RO cartridges is that I'm getting no unusual increase in nuisance algae growth in my other tank. That one has me scratching my head.

Gary

[GaryP]

Well... I dripped Kalk yesterday and got my pH up to 8.6. This AM the pH was back down to 7.8 and alk was at 7.5. I started slowly dripping Kalk again. All I can figure is that its going to take a while to build up enough buffer to overcome nighttime CO2 production and build alkalinity. I left the lights on in the fuge overnight (I run them 24 hrs.) I'm also wondering if the dinos are contributing large amount of organic acids that are aggravating the situation. I'm hoping that the carbon will help there.

Gary

[JimD]

So how gows the battle?

[GaryP]

I still can't keep the pH up to 8.6 consistently and I'm not sure what damage I'm doing by bouncing the pH up and down but it looks like the dinos are dying off. I'm dripping twice a day, AM and evening, about 3 qts. each time. My corals are looking great. I'm seeing a lot of new growth on my SPS.

Gary

[JimD]

Great news! I dont think the temporary Ph fluctuation will cause any immidiate damage. The important thing is to get rid of the Dino's, Id continue with the regime if it seems to be working.