Need advice regarding Sump / Fuge design

[MarkLW]

We have are setting up our 120G, it has duel overflows (1” and ¾” bulkheads). We are getting together with Dan this weekend to talk sump and prices but want to have a basic design at least thought of before we go down to SA.

We are thinking that the approximate dimensions would be 30”x18”x 18”.

(I found a sump design from someone else and pirated and modified to my needs... hope it was ok.)

Any constructive feedback is apreacheated!!

[scuba_steveo]

have the skimmer drain enter the sump where the tank drains enter. Also, do not combine the tank drains, but instead bring the two drains from the tank down to the sump independent of one another.

[::pete::]

30"x18"x18" I will assume these are the dimensions of the fuge/sump?

That isnt going to leave much room between the dividers.

Here is the sump and fuge from a local reefer here [Typhon on RC] and I copied it when I made mine, but made it bigger. They are seperate and able to come off line for maintenance. Just to give you some ideas :D

http://www.maast.org/albums/prafferty/Plumbing2.sized.gif

[scuba_steveo]

pete, typhon is from here?

[dan]

We are thinking that the approximate dimensions would be 30”x18”x 18”.

(I found a sump design from someone else and pirated and modified to my needs... hope it was ok.)

Any constructive feedback is apreacheated!!

that filter will work but you want to save as much room for sump. at 30'' long and 18'' wide you would have to divide the chambers into 10'' sections, so your live rock area would be 10''x 18'' sump 10'' x 18'' and fuge 10'' x 18''. if you want the sump bigger than you just take away from the other chambers. the way you have the fuge is good because that way you can control the water flow coming in.

[dan]

Also, do not combine the tank drains, but instead bring the two drains from the tank down to the sump independent of one another.

i agree with steve on the two drains that way there are no backups on your flow

[MarkLW]

How about this....

[alexwolf]

that mag 18 as a return going through a SQWD, will cut back that flow drastically. I had the same thing, except it was a mag18 on a closed loop. I ditched it, it was basically worthless. I would go with a nice pressure pump, like the little giant or Iwaki, or Quiet one.

[dan]

i think you need to keep the top at same level.the 2nd pic all you did was incease the live rock area and not the sump. i like pic no.1 better. is there a reason why you want to keep live rock in the sump? you are setting up a 120. are you not going to put live rock in the tank?

[::pete::]

pete, typhon is from here?

Not to take from the thread, but I moved and Im on my way HOME.

[MarkLW]

Picture is not to scale. When I increased the live rock area height that will allow to keep same amount of rock in the sump and then moving the wall for the sump area to be bigger (Did not have time to change the picture to reflect moving of the wall).

Yes we will be having live rock in the tank see attachment of what we have in it currently.

[Richard]

A mag 18 and a mag 12 submersed on a 120 will give you temperature problems IMO. That's 255 watts fully submersed and running all the time. When I had my 120 I had a mag 12 for main pump, a mag 5 for the skimmer, pc's 5 " over the tank, open top, large fan running on the sump evaporating 3-4 gallons a day and my tank ran at 83 degrees during the summer.

Go with external pumps.

[MarkLW]

Was not thinking about how much heat those pumps generate...Hmmm, guess back to the drawing board. See that the example posted ~pete~ has externals…and actually Matt who made our skimmer suggested external pump….looks as we may be needing to do some pump exchanging if possible.

[brewercm]

Why not just run the Mags external, not the best pump external but they will work.

[MarkLW]

"Brewercm" we have talked about this with others also and got the same feedback that they are not the best external pumps but would work. So I thinking if we get pushed out side the sump walls Matt gave us some suggestions on pumps that will work better on the skimmer we have so may look to exchange the MAG 12 and get a better fit pump for the skimmer.

May run the MAG 18 external if does generate that much heat. I think even with the SQWD that we should be getting at 1200GPH from that pump....what do you 'guys' think about how much vertical loss and SQWD loss will cause to the GPH?? (At some point we may add a closed loop for extra flow).

My fiancé and I are totally new to all this so we are hoping to drain your guys brains and do it correct the fist time around.

Can someone help out with some suggestions on how I would lay this out keeping the same general idea of the 3 basic chambers but with external pums (NOTE: that we are only working with 4’ of under tank area and we are also needing to put a CA Reactor with CO2 canister and skimmer overflow container all under at 4’ tank). Would still like the high flow area for live rock, a fuge area for 6’ sand bed and some “good green stuff” and then finally a place for the skimmer (I’m teetering on the line about putting the skimmer external but am afraid about ever springing a leek and the consequences of that decision).

[Richard]

Personally, I do not think the liverock chamber is necessary or even desirable. Without a functional sand bed I think that part of the sump will just be a detris trap and either eventually cause you problems with phosphate/nitrate or just be something else you have to clean. Plus you have room for more than enough liverock in your tank so I just don't see what having some in the sump is going to buy.

I like Dan's entry filter with refugium design and that is what I'm having him build for my 215. It's a very simple design and very functional. Then you could go with 30"L x 20" or 21" W. That would leave you 18" on the side for the external pumps. I like the Iwaki pumps although they are kind of expensive, I think the 40RLXT would work fine.

[MarkLW]

Detritus is trapped in the pre-filter bags. I subscribe to the more rock the better and the higher flow over the rock the better...so figure if not all going in tank this is going to be a good place to put it and super high flow. Let the rock do what it does best.

what does "Dan's entry filter with refugium design" look like?

[scuba_steveo]

if you bring the pump external go with a panworld. They are awesome!

[MarkLW]

Thanks...so many decisions to make... what a learning experience to say the least.

[Richard]

Just remembered, I had planned on making a stand out of pvc so that my mag drive pumps would only be partially submersed. That would allow for at least some heat loss. Mag Drives are not self priming but I think as long as the intake is at least 3/4 underwater they would be able to start up. Then use an pvc elbow and extension to extend the intake near the bottom of the sump. My tank sprung a bad leak before I ever got around to trying it so I don't know how well it would work.