new tank project

[eleyan]

I don't know what I did right, but I just convinced my wife to upgrade my 46G FO tank to the max size I can fit in its place. The only constraint is that it has to fit perfectly there. I have it sitting on the ledge in front of my fire place. the max size I can fit there is 18"x7' x any hight. anyone knows if there is a tall tank with that footprint? who makes it?

[Nano_Steve]

holy crow! i say tear out the fire place and install that thing in-wall!!! how friggin cool would that be! awesome tank btw. :)

-steve

[::pete::]

Keep in mind the weight of the tank and how was the hearth built?

[eleyan]

I calculated the tank size base on 7'x1.5'x2' and its about 158 gallons. It will weigh about 1400 lbs with water. This is mere than 3x what I have there right now, but itis spread over more than double the surface area, so assuming that the support beams for the hearth repeats every 2', then it will sit on at lease 3 of them. I think this will be similar to any home made stand (keep my fingers crossed). anyone knows more about how these things are built?
I was also thinking of making the hood tiled with the same color tiles as the base, that would look cool. I think I would have to mount it to the wall if that is the case, so it does not add more weight to the tank.

[Tim Marvin]

Aqua trends will build any size you want. 7' by 7' by 2' would be cool and you could put some huge fish in there. Halides could be in the attic. Of course you'd have to put in some mounts to hold it against the wall since it is so narrow I wouldn't want that to tip over.

[eleyan]

Tim, I have vaulted ceiling, so the hight needs to be more like 20'. I don;t know how I'll be able to clean the bolttom :) Do you know how much ocianic charges for custom tanks (150G) ?

[::pete::]

In my experience something like that isnt usually built to support weight. It would be a 2x? on the wall and the short wall in front with a couple spacers to keep the front edge in line. It would then be topped with 1/2" scrap laying around to form a surface for the tile. Im not trying to talk you out of it, but best to make sure before ... rather than after. You might want to try a stud finder to see if there is bracing in there.

[hippie316]

Forever pets on San Pedro and basse in San Antonio will build whst ever you want.

[eleyan]

my stud-finder is getting confused because of the tiles. I went to home depot to find a better one, and the guy there said that all of them only handle sheet rock, and will probably do the same thing. He seems to think that the frame for the fire place ledge should be on 16" pitch. The guys at Aquadome think that it should be 16" as well, and worst case should be 24" which is still OK. I'm almost convinced, but I'd like to make sure. Anyone else has some experince in this, or knows how to find out?
So far, the standard oceanic tanks I can use are 110G/125G/135G/150G tall. I'm shooting for the 150G tall (72"x18"x29")

[eleyan]

Step 1 is complete, I found a tank. Its a 135G oceanic (72"x18"x25") which fits nicely in there. I would have liked to get 80" wide so that it fits all the way to the edge, but didn't want to spend $1000+ for a custom.

I also found my filters:

eheim 2026 canister (from vinh)
das box (from yano)
and looking for a 20G to do a fuge on the side

the 2026 is rated for 100G and the das is for 55G, so I'm hoping the combo will be sufficent. If not, I'll have to look for a 2028 which is rated up to 160G.
Next, I need to get the sand (long debate on another thread) and the rocks and build the top. I'm going to use the PCs I got from Sam in it. When I'm done, this will be 100% recycled tank from mast members :)

[Ram_Puppy]

lookin good man!

[eleyan]

Step 2 is almost done. I built a 12" hood top with 2 oppening at the top. Tomorrow is paint day :)

[mhaynes01]

looks nice cant wait to see that puppy up and running

[::pete::]

Looking good ...

[eleyan]

Here is the tank in its final resting place with the top painted. Tomorrow I fill it halfway and keep my fingers crossed that the ledge can handle the weight. If it does, then I will be shopping for some nice fish. If it doesn't, then I will be looking for a good divorce lawyer :)

[eleyan]

the DAS box is inside on the right side, and the eheim 2026 is outside on the right. Hope that is enough.

[::pete::]

Just curious, where is that sand going? I see the bumpers on the hearth ...

[eleyan]

Pete, What do you mean? The sand is going inside the tank ?? The bumper is for my son, but he just learned how to tear them off :)

[::pete::]

That sand is ok for reef tanks? I mentioned the bumpers thinking maybe it was going outside. :D

SouthDown (https://home.comcast.net/~fishauthority/REEFSAND1.jpg) looks like this.

[eleyan]

Pete, check out this thread:
http://www.maast.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=6464
it seems that some people are using it w/o problems

[eleyan]

If you have some extra southdown, I'll take it :)

[::pete::]

I guess its ok and if I followed those post correctly the only difference is the color?

[Instar]

Elevan, Sorry to bear the same news as Pete, but, that hearth just isn't built or designed to support all that weight. He has it pegged right. Next problem is that you under calculated the weight of all that by a lot. You have to add the wieght of all the equipment, sand, rocks, you sitting on there or leaning on the edge of it and the weight of the glass. Then add little torque from it not being equally supported on all sides. When its all added up, it will be over a ton at least and thats without the water weight that is in the pumps, lines or any support refugium or whatever. A hearth is supported just enough to hold the tile in place. It might be a little sturdier if it was a solid masonary build, but, its not, its a tile overlay. That does not require much support and most builders do not over build because they don't get their money back from that.

Will your home owners policy cover a collapse if you did it with a fish tank? I wish you the best of luck and hope nothing bad happens. It really looks too nice to risk not having it on a stand, not to mention the money invested in it.

[Instar]

Actually, I think nano-steve has a great idea on the in-wall. Then you would find out for sure how all that is built and get a few inches more space in your room. I'm nervous for you man. Hope it all stays put. Keep the kids back for the first year or so, just to be safe. 8)

[eleyan]

Larry, your making me nervous again man. I was sold on the idea after I talked to the guys at home depot and aquadome. According to both, it should be on 16" supports, maybe 2"x4"s. I got a nicer stud finder, and it was finding something in the middle of each tile, so I assumed even better, 12".
Here is my thought. I had the 46G there for a year with no problem. It was 3'x18" base. This one is 135G so 3x the weight, maybe a little more since its thicker glass. it sites on 6'x18" base, so 2x the surface are. So I'm going 50% more per sqare foot than what I had.

[NaCl_H2O]

I've been watching this post, and I'm scared for you man! Its not that the whole thing may COLAPSE suddenly, but slight movememnt of 1/8 inch over several weeks/months can cause enough stress on the glass to start a crack & a chain reaction ... ending in divorce :o

Here is a thought that maybe others can comment on too:
Build a 4x4 base the size of the aquarium. The joints at the corners of the 4x4s may be tricky to make it solid, but maybe Pete or someone can suggest how to make the joints strong enough. This way the weight is evenly distributed, and a slight movement/creep of the hearth won't put stress on the glass?

But, if it was me, I would tear out the hearth, build a "Strong" base, and put the tile back on!

Good Luck - Steve

[::pete::]

But, if it was me, I would tear out the hearth, build a "Strong" base, and put the tile back on!Good Luck - Steve

The above is what I would do, but this is just my opinion.

There is maybe 25 tile (25.00 bucks) and the framing (35.00 bucks) is minimal cover the framing with something stiff (25.00 bucks-plywood/hardi-board) and re tile (might be able to reuse). It would take less than a day, but the peace of mind .... priceless.

[eleyan]

OK, you guys really scared the hell out me. So I decided to keep this tank as a playpin for my son :) just kidding. I called the guy that sold me the tank and he still had the stand, so I'm going to pick it up today and find another spot for it. The good news is, since the hearth is free again, I can keep my 46G as well .. Yeah

[::pete::]

Not trying to scare you ... just trying to help. Now if you throw the sand in there a pail and a few shovels you will be all set. :D

Just curious, what is the stand costing? Less than beefing up the hearth?

[eleyan]

I just picked up the stand at a great bargain: $50. It looks really nice, I need to stain it to match the cap now. It has a lot of room underneath for a great sump. Now I'm thinking of drilling the tank and using a wet/dry instead of the canister. Any horror stories about that before I go into that direction :)
I called aquadome and they will do it ($20 a hole). But they can't do it if its tempered glass. I know the bottom is tempred, but is the back and sides tempered on oceanics (135G) ?

[::pete::]

No ... no horror stories :D , as a matter of fact you will probably be happier and might want to do a sump/fuge with all the extra room.

As for the tempered glass I am not sure, but you could probably call a distributor to find out. It probably isnt, but doesnt hurt to ask.

Now the fun starts ... :D

[eleyan]

Prof has donated a 50G home made tank to my project. So I wanted to split it into a fuge / wet dry with the return pump in the middle and use it under the tank.

[Instar]

Ok, I can finally get some sleep now. I had this really bad nightmare going round in my head.. and the little one... thank goodness you chose the course of buying a stand. 8)

[eleyan]

Lary, I think I had that same nightmare too :) but I always thought that if it collapses, it will happen as I'm filling it up. I didn't think of the case were it could happen at any time after that :o

[Instar]

Remind me to tell you the story of the 100 gallon tank on the second floor and the grand piano on the first floor sometime at a meeting...

[eleyan]

Heres and update, I painted the stand and got the tank drilled. I also picked up a tidepool 2 sump from robertpower3 along with the sand he had in his tank. Next I have to do the bulkheads and pulmbing for the returns.

[NaCl_H2O]

I also picked up a tidepool 2 sump ...

That Tidepool isn't a long term solution! I had one on a freshwater system for a few years and the trays were always cracking along the edge. Also don't think it is enough volume and the flow rate from your drain pipe will overwhelm it if the filter media gets just a little dirty/clogged. Be making plans for your "Real" sump ... I thought you said above you had an old 50g tank available?

[eleyan]

I was thinking of using the 50G tank, but I cant fit it throught the stand oppenings. The only way I can fit it is if I take apart the stand and reasemble it with the 50G sump inside. but if it cracks or something and I need to replace it, i will have to completly disassemble the tank to get to it.
I'm picking up a 30G tank to use as a fuge on the other side of the stand, so the return flow will be split between the sump and the fuge. I think that will bring the flow rate in the sump back to the rated flow (300-600GPH)

[Brett Wilson]

I think pete is talking about the sand he sees in the garage picture of the tank. the play sand....

[::pete::]

I think pete is talking about the sand he sees in the garage picture of the tank. the play sand....

Yes ... the 3 bags is what I was referring to.

[NaCl_H2O]

I was thinking of using the 50G tank ...

Can't tell, but is the stand open on the bottom? If so, you could set the stand over the sump. Lots of us (including me) have sumps that can not be removed for maintenance - just part of the trade-off to get more water volume!

From personal experience, I don't think you will be happy with the Tidepool long term. Take a look at it and think about where water will flow when the filter media in the top tray gets clogged (not IF it gets cloged, because it WILL).

[eleyan]

The stand is open at the bottom, but the oppening is only 12" wide, and the tank is 12.5". I see what you are saying regarding the trays. Actually, the guy I got it from told me that he ran it with the trays empty, only the course spunge in the firts one. I guess he was having the same problem you are discribing.

[eleyan]

I finally got the right size bulk heads and put everything togather for a leak test in the guarage. I had to speacial order some 1" bulkheads that fit in a 2" hole.

[eleyan]

tank setup in place and cycling. I just need to get some PVC elbows to fix the water level and arrange the rocks.

[NaCl_H2O]

Good job - very nice :grin:

Did you get your sump/capacity, return flow rate problem adjusted OK?

[eleyan]

Yeah, I got a T and valve from Lowes this afternoon and I got it balanced to where it will not overflow in case of a power out. Good thing I did, since we had one this afternoon :o

[NaCl_H2O]

Good thing I did, since we had one this afternoon :o

OK, you obviously are not qualified to keep a reef tank. You are suppoesed to fix your problems AFTER you have a few gallons of saltwater in the carpet, not before ;)

You are doomed for success :roll:

[eleyan]

This is not my first tank, I had many a gallons on the floor before :)