Sand-update 6/24

[SBreef]

Hi All!
I am trying to gauge everyones interest on a group order for sand. I recently meet with someone from HD, and spoke with him for minutes about getting some southdown or equivalent. During this chat, he gave me the store managers name and number. This employee said that this manager is very helpful, and would try to help me out. So, what I am wanting to know is if, I did get them to transfer a pallet, could it all be sold at one time.

Thanks,

Roy
acclaim96

[matt]

Here we go again! If you can succeed at this where others have failed, you'll be a folk hero among reefkeepers in our area! Go for it; I'm certain you'll find plenty of people to buy the sand. I'd buy a few bags, even though I don't need it now.

[JimD]

Actually, with the trend leaning towards bare bottom systems, Id be suprized if there was enough interest to support a whole pallet.

[NaCl_H2O]

I may be willing to participate! I am in the early stages of a major project (400g+) and could store the sand until I am ready.

Can anyone compare the "southdown sand" against sugar sized Aragonite?
Any cons related to the HD sand?
Does it offer the same water chemistry advantages & buffering qualities?
Does it have cool little shells in it? :grin:

Thx - Steve

[Ram_Puppy]

A friend and me are getting ready to set up a 115 and 140 respectively, we would both be interested in some southdown.

[cac]

I would be in for at least 5 bags.

[brewercm]

srodgers,
Southdown is sugar sized aragonite sand, that's why everyone wants it. It's just packaged as playsand instead of for aquarium use. Not sure if it has any of the cool little shells in it though, I would doubt it since it is sold for sand boxes.

[scuba_steveo]

Bare bottoms are pretty but I have been doing some intense research on sand beds vs. bare bottom for my new tank and have found that the DSB is a very important structure that should not be left out and can be taken care of easily so that it will not crash. This is a quote from Dr. Ron Shimek, "With some 30 years of experience as a marine ecologist behind me, I can say that THE most important component of a coral reef aquarium is a deep sand bed, comprised of very fine sandy sediments ..."

I think the bare bottom is a trend for fish only and I know some are doing it with reefs but I will not risk it.

I am now trying to fing what sand I should use for setting up a DSB. The particle size should range averaging about 0.125mm. The sand is aragonitic sand, a mixture of oolitic sand, live sand and general goo.... The following sand distribution is what Dr. Ron considers ideal. So the question now is what to buy and where to get it.

[SBreef]

OK!
I will come into town early tomorrow and see if I can meet with this GM. And see what I need to do, and get all of the info needed. I will let you all know, what I find out.

Thanks,

Roy

[NaCl_H2O]

OK, I'm probably "In".

Anybody have a rough "lbs of sand" to "cubic inches of sand bed" formula?

[brewercm]

Here's a good calculator for it.

http://www.purearagonite.com/SandBed.html

[btacker]

I'll take 2 or 3 bags

[Ram_Puppy]

how much does a bag of southdown contain (in pounds?) I calculated a 4 inch sand bed at slightly less that 200 lbs. (30 x 30 x 30 inches)

my friend needs about 300 lbs for his tank, so that is a total of 500 for us.

[brewercm]

I'm pretty sure they are 50lb bags.

[Ram_Puppy]

any estimate on cost?

[scuba_steveo]

how many pounds are in a pallet?
http://www.purearagonite.com/order.html
they sell it buy the half pallet but I do not know a price.

[mharris7]

man - I've done deep sand beds for years and just recently went back to bare bottom. They were driving major hair algae problems in my tank. They seem to process nitrates well but phosphates seem to build up to a point and then leach back into the system. Just my $.02.

[scuba_steveo]

Well I dont have any experience with them going bad. All I know is what I read. And I have read that you can keep a good DSB forever but it must be maintained and packed full of critters.

[Ram_Puppy]

I think DSB's are one of those issues reefers tend to be evenly, and deeply divided over... I don't have enough experience one way or the other to say yay or nay on them, I just know like steve, that What I have read is positive.

I know many people say it's not neccessary, but I plan on putting a plenum in my new system. should help move water through the sand bed, and that has to be beneficial to critters.

[mharris7]

my experience was that maintaining the critters was a real pain.... that and the sandbeds leach phosphates into the water once they age to a certain point. The benifits while I had dsb's were that my nitrates were always low and when my critter population was high it produced plankton that fed the corals.

Plenums unfortunately don't develop the anaerobic zones that are required to process the nitrates.

I've actually come to think the best solution is a large refugium. The growing caulerpa and macro algaes suck up phosphates and nitrates, and they produce a ton of critters that feed the tank. I recommend running carbon with them though - they tend to produce tannins(depending on the species of macro's used) that yellow the water a bit. (carbon's good to run full time for lots of reasons actually).

[Ram_Puppy]

ooh.. didn't even think about my fuge.. better add another 50 lbs.

[Ram_Puppy]

Perhaps your looking at a DSB from a different perspective... if you see it as a maintenance assist, something that helps maintain the health of your system, and it fails by leaching nitrates, then I can see how if it has been failing for you, that you might not want one, however, if you see it as part of the reef environment you want to create, and are willing to work with it's negative side effects, then it is no different than choosing what fish you want in your system... I would be curious to see if the people who don't have problems with their DSB's are people who run refugiums. I plan on running both in the new tank.

[scuba_steveo]

any word?

[SBreef]

Update 6/25

This morning I went to the store that I had the managers name, and he was not in. But I did get to talk with one of the pro-contractor guys. H I told him what I wanted and he said that if I pay for the shipping, he would get me anything I wanted. I explained to him and gave him all of the details and which stores had it, Thanks Pete, praffery, and he said that he would call me on Monday. He then will quote me a price for the sand and shipping costs. I will e-mail him this afternoon with more info plus pictures of the bags.

Roy
acclaim96

[::pete::]

Roy, here is the picture (https://home.comcast.net/~fishauthority/REEFSAND1.jpg) of the packaging.

[SBreef]

Thanks Pete!

I am going to e-mail the folks at the homedepot that I am dealing with, so in that there is no question about what I am trying to order from them.

Roy

[::pete::]

If I head over there later today I will get you the HD upc code.

[scuba_steveo]

well i can not wait that long. i am going to order pure caribbean argonite from premium aquatics.

[::pete::]

Sku is the one I ment. Each product in HD has its own so they can find it in the pc.

[::pete::]

Here is the sku 169-803 use it along with the pic. I dont want to mess y'all up :D . Beter safe than sorry.

[SBreef]

Thanks Pete!!


Roy

[StephenA]

I used pure caribbean argonite, regular play sand, and beach sand in my reef tank. Dr. Ron stresses that you should have a mix of different particle sizes. I've never heard the phosphate store on DSB's. As lond as it is kept "alive" they perform well.

[Ram_Puppy]

I am planning on mixing some tahitian moon sand in with mine, I have that look going on right now and I really like it.

[::pete::]

Curious ... how did you make out?

[SBreef]

I went by this morning and thepro sales guy was off today. I am starting to wonder about this store!

Roy

[::pete::]

Ha ... after dealing with them for over 6 yrs I lost hope.