suggest a pump for 115 gallon tank?

[Ram_Puppy]

I have been PMing with matt about him creating a sump/refugium for me. Unfortunatley, I don't think I am going to be able to pay for that quality for a while, so I am planning on putting an oceanic sump + a refugium on the system for now. I have decided to go with a 36" stand, and the tank is 30" high, but I think the return is lower than that (not sure as of yet, still waiting for that part of the spec.)

Anyhow, assuming 66" as a maximum, and the fact matt has convinced me to buy a good pump, I have been spending my morning poking around on the net trying to find a good pump. What do you all think of the Dolphin Ampmaster 2100? here are it's specs according to marine depot:

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_pumps_dolphin_amp_master_aqua_sea.asp?Car tId=

from what i am reading, the pump can be dialed back, which leaves me room for error in my calculations... (I am a measure 10 times and then cut, and get it wrong kind of guy. :) ) (jk, not that bad... but I have been known to make dumb mistakes.)

Thanks all!

[matt]

Ampmaster is pretty big for that size; you'll have major turbulence in the sump. Think about an iwaki or panworld. You only need to run 500-1000gph through the sump, the rest of your flow can be with a closed loop. It's best if you use separate pumps for that, because you cannot (to my knowledge) have a true closed loop (no head pressure) and a return ("open" loop) on the same pump. If you can figure out a way to use the small ampmaster for both return and a separate circulation loop, it might be a good option.

Regarding your sump, have you contacted Dan? He does good work, and it's got to be a better deal than the oceanic.

Head pressure is measured from the water level in the sump to water level in the tank. You then add friction loss, epending on the size plumbing and #of elbows. There's a calculator on reefcentral or reefs.org, I think.

[reefer]

i would use a good quality pump, i recommend an ehiem 1260. it pumps approx. 635gpm.
hth!
:cool:

[Ram_Puppy]

thanks guys, I have been convinced not to skimp on this item, so the brands of choice seem to be iwaki and eheim. I am scratching my head over this... is placing a sump and refugium in your stand always stressful? I still want storage space, but it seems that my choice of tank (a 30x30x30 cube) does not lend itself to having a lot of room in the stand. My refugium needs to be big enough to maintain a substantial pod population for the main tank (since I want to have mandarins)... I guess I may end up with barely any room underneath... :)

[reefer]

how are the copepods suppose to get by the pump alive? if you are running a fuge underneath your tank, it should be designed for filtration purposes, imo.
8)

[Ram_Puppy]

reefer, my understanding is that the pods larval and egg forms ar epulled through the pump, and grow up in the tank, the breeding population remains safe in the sump.

[reefer]

i hadn't given much thought to the eggs and larvae, i just thought that everything would get scrambled going thru the pump impeller.
8)

[don-n-sa]

IMO pan world pumps are the way to go!

try premiumaquatics

[NaCl_H2O]

I'm researching a new tank(s) setup and advice I have received (which I consider good) is Iwaki pumps. They come with either Japanese or US motors, the Japanese motors run a little cooler & quieter than the US equivalents.

Your Fuge (filled water line) should be above your tank, and the feed from fuge to tank should simply be gravity.

Just passing along what I have heard - but not yet experienced

Steve

[matt]

reefer, my understanding is that the pods larval and egg forms ar epulled through the pump, and grow up in the tank, the breeding population remains safe in the sump.

This is exactly correct, with the exception that much of the larvae swept into the tank will feed corals and other animals rather than develop into adults. The adult animals in the fuge that can swim freely tend to avoid the pump. Also the bigger low rpm external pumps have impellers that supposedly allow more through them. In this case you'd be looking at the non-pressure iwakis/panworlds and the ampmaster.

I don't think you can compare eheim and iwaki pumps fairly; iwakis are industrial quality external only pumps; eheims are more like really good powerheads. I use them on reactors. Iwakis and/or pan worlds are real workhorses that will circulate lots of water for a really long time without breaking down or slowing down too much. Of course the prices reflect this.

[Ram_Puppy]

so matt you think the ampmaster is within a viable range? The marine depot description says it can be 'dialed back' and I do like that the new motors on them are apparently incredibly efficient.

I have been doing a lot of reading on sumps and fuges today (their design) and I am wondering if a baffle infront of the pump intake would settle any turbulence issues, regardless... buying a pump with power that would never be used would be kinda dumb. :) and I don't forsee a major size increase in the near future as the pocket book will strain on this one!

[scuba_steveo]

Go with the pan world if you can just simply because it is the best.

Also, if you can put the refugium above the tank and have it gravity drain. I understand that this is not an option for most.

[matt]

2100 gph is not too much flow for a 115 gallon tank by any means, but you definitely don't want to push all of it through your sump. If you can figure out a way to plumb it so most of the flow is within the tank then I think it would be fine. You might try to find a thread that discusses the oceans motion device; Blake (wkopplin) has one. This thing rotates the output of a pump between several pipes. You'd really have to research the plumbing, but basically what I think you'd do is split the output of the ampmaster so that some went directly to the tank as a return, drained into your sump/refugium and back to the pump. The rest of the output of the ampmaster would go to the oceans motion, then through several outlets in the tank, and drain through a separate bulkhead, leading back to the pump but bypassing the sump. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a way to keep those two flow circuits separate, so that during a power outage the whole thing doesn't drain. The guy that makes the oceans motion thing, Paul, would know if it's possible. He's a whiz with this sort of thing. I'd love to try an ampmaster on my 110 in a closed loop. Remember, though, that you need 1.5" plumbing for it. If you try to push it through 1" plumbing, it will lose 40% flow.

Or, you could do the easy thing, which is to buy 2 iwakis or panworlds and run one as a return, one closed loop. This would be a little more expensive, but you'd have more reliability (2 pumps) and simpler plumbing. Whatever you do, in a 30" cube I would think you'd want many outputs into the tank, because of the shape you'd want flow coming from a variety of spots; not too fast in any one area. The oceans motion thing could be perfect. Also, the "calfo return manifold" (search for a description of that) might be great in a cube.

[witecap4u]

A gen x mak4 makes a decent return pump also. I have one on my 100gal...

[GaryP]

I just got a pan world for my 125 but haven't got it installed yet.

Gary