Fuge Questions

[Nano_Steve]

hey all,

wanted to start a new thread with some of my questions regarding a new project im undertaking to putting together a new 33 corner ive had for awhile.

my question is should a protein skimmer be placed before or after the bio area in a refugium? ive made a picture to kinda illustrate what im talking about.

thanks, steve

[Tim Marvin]

Put the skimmer before or you will have problems with micro bubbles being pumped back into the display. Also have the water pass in just above the sand and up over the top to the pump side otherwise you will have dead spots in the fuge to grow your cyano culture. One more baffle and a sponge would also help on the output side just before the pump.

[Nano_Steve]

so you think something like this would be better?

im making this out of either a 10, 15, or tall 20 gallon because of their footprint. i can make whatever height i want but this is the only foot print that will fit underneath.

thanks again, steve

[Tim Marvin]

PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nano_Steve]

u dont forsee a problem with the water not being able to pass through the sponge well enough and have it overflow in the bioload area??? i want to put a floatswitch in the area with the outlet pump also.

-steve

ps what would be a good size pump for a setup like this? its going to pump into that 33 gallon corner i was telling you about.

[matt]

I wouldn't put a sponge there. You want water from the fuge to pass to the tank with as little physical restraints as possible, so that any larvae or small critters generated in the fuge can make it to the main tank.

Definitely put the skimmer before the fuge. As far as baffes go, the over-under-over set up is the standard for trapping bubbles. Try to leave as large an area aftr the last baffle, before your return pump, as you can. This is where all the evaporation will take place. If you have a small area there, you run the risk of running your return pump dry quickly.

Think about an over-under-over baffle arrangement before the fuge, after the skimmer, then after the fuge just put a single LOW baffle to keep sand out of the pump, but keep your water level well above this baffle.

[Dozer]

Since you're still in the planning stage with your fuge (as am I), I thought I'd post a pic another guy sent me of his sump/fuge combo. He did it slightly different, with the return being more toward the middle, and the return chamber getting water from both sides. Maybe others can look and give us both advice on the different designs, pros and cons, etc. Hopefully it will be of some help to you.

[Nano_Steve]

matt,

u said that having a sponge would creat a physical barrier for small critters, wouldnt they be chopped up in the pump anyways??? i havent been able to successfully get my copepods to go through the pump on my existing 30 and im just kinda wondering. do you think if i got rid of the baffle i have in front of the pump along with the sponge that would be adequate room for evaporation? i plan to put my float switch in that area since thats the only place in the fuge that will vary in depth.

also what would be a good sized pump for this setup??? ive never dealt with larger pumps before so i dont know all the "mag 7-29" or whatever's :P

thanks again for all the help so far, steve

[matt]

Many planktonic animals, especially larvae, are very small (microscopic) and make it through pumps no problem. Thie bigger and slower your pump is, the better. Go for a larger external pump, for this size tank maybe iwaki 20 or something like that.

[Nano_Steve]

well unfortunately i dont think that i will have enough room underneath the tank to fit an external pump. :? does anyone know the exact dimensions of an iwaki 20? does it have a 90 degree angle from its intake to its output? if it does have this i may be able to squeeze it into the back somehow with elbows and whatnot.

thanks, steve

[Nano_Steve]

well i thought about it a couple more nights and came out with this rough diagram, im gonna use an 18 gallon(has the same foot print as a 10) and will probably light it with a 96 watt power quad.

my questions for this idea is will having my intake and output for my skimmer be sufficient where i have them or will they need to be moved? also do the bulkheads for my skimmer and my tank return and intake need to be the same???

thanks, steve

[Tim Marvin]

A course sponge will help catch particulate matter and will not stop pods. They can get right through the sponge no problem, like Matt said they are microscopic when larval. A sponge is not a micron filter, but you will have to clean the sponge a couple times a month to get out the sludge, and keep it from producing phosphates, but they work very well.

[matt]

I'd put the skimmer in and out before the refugium, and your bubble trap before the refugium. Right now you're taking refugium water and skimming it, IMO a no-no, plus you'll be reskimming water by draining the skimmer to a place "upstream" from the skimmer input, plus you'll be effectively adding all the skimmer flow through the refugium and over the bubble traps. Like if your return is 500gph and your skimmer is 500gph, you'll be pushing 1000 gph through the fuge and over the baffles. There's no need for that to happen. Also, I don't understand the configuration of your baffles before the refugium; what's the benefit of that "split wall"? Maybe I just don't understand the drawing.

Anyhow, those are my thoughts. Good luck!

[Tim Marvin]

Right, I agree with Matt.

[Nano_Steve]

ok i see where you guys are coming from with the flow aspect. that makes more sense when u put it into mathematical terms (go figure).

the split in the wall just before the refugium is to cut down on sand being kicked up from it being dumped from over a baffle, this way it just gently moves across the sand bed. the split between the top of the tank and the top of the baffle have no purpose, ive just seen pro sumps built this way and thought i would do what they show.

i put the bubble trap right before my pump so that i dont get micro bubbles spit into the tank due to the baffle-fall right before the pumps.

thanks for the ideas, steve

[dow]

For some good advice, look here. This guy seems to have a very good grasp of the whole sump thing.

http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/melevsreef/links.html

[cvonseggern]

FWIW, I know of a guy who frequents saltwaterfish.com's forums who says he has had baby Banggais make it through his pumps unscathed! He's using an Iwaki 20 and I'm not sure what else, but the Banggai had to go through one of the two to get to where he found it. I would think larval pods would be no problem at all.