Tank Is MAD

[DeletedAccount]

Well, my 120 has been getting very angry with me the last few days...

I cannot tell where the problem lies.

My anenome has expelled its zooxanthellae and is looking "flat". It has not wandered around at all. Will NOT take the food that it normally loves.

My xenia "melted" yesterday.

My lawnmower is breathing very rapidly.

My colt died. Perfect and big yesterday evening. Little slime pile this morning.

Abalone died yesterday am.

Seem to be missing quite a few clean-up crew guys.

Nothing else seems affected. Purple tang, maroon pair, hippo tang, flame angel, cleaner shrimp, other LPS and solt corals, sand goby, all OK (not even ich on the hippo)

This is the tank that I am trying to slowly get accustomed to the new 400W MH. They are up to 6 hours a day.

Did a water change last sunday of 35 gallons (normally do this amount 1X a month). Did another 35 gallon just now. (120 w/ about 25 g sump) Test readings: AFTER water change: pH (salifert) ~7.6, Nitrate (Salifert) ~25 ppm, ammonia 0, Salinity 1.025 (refractometer)

I seem to have lost my directions to my Salifert KH/Alk Test. As well as a color guide (if it had one). oooppps!

So, this is AFTER my water change. Hate to see what it was like BEFORE! Why does this tank hate me so much now???? It just won't get happy!

[DeletedAccount]

Oh, only additive I have used recently was a little Reef Iodide. was told it would help with the lighting change effects on the tissue. 2 capfuls 2X a week.

[JimD]

Wow Misty, thats terrible. I hope its not a prelude of whats to come. We need to figure this out asap! First off, I probably wouldnt add anymore iodide untill the problem is diagnosed. Is it possible that a contaminate like a cleaning fluid or the like may have been introduced? I know Im reaching here but ya have to start somewhere. Possibly voltage? Is your nitrate normally at that level? Keep us posted...
Jim

[witecap4u]

PH seems low, and also, what is your temp. doing with the new lights?

[matt]

If you started the iodine dosing around the time these problems surfaced I'd suspect that. Also, ageeing with JimD, my suspicion is that the ph is too low for the xenia; they really seem to prefer a higher ph.

[Instar]

pH is low by .3 as I'm sure you know. If the tank is nearing 2 years old or older, there can be a lot of nasty stuff starting to accumulate in the sand bed. With the pH low some elements that have precipitated into carbonate salts or other forms can start to go back into solution and that makes matters worse because it limits the amount of dissolved O2 and that in turn will start to drive the pH even lower at night. When the colt dies, it leaves some toxins behind. Best thing to do on top of more water changes is run activated carbon. About 2 pounds of it in a canister. Matt recommended I use a mag 5 to drive mine and that seemed about right. Then, with water that really is quite far off, a 10% water change per day for 10 days is better and will help avoid shock when the pH rises. With all the weather changes over the past few weeks, the temperature swings have been enormous! I've been watching and have a fairly stabile temperature all the time, but, have still seen as much as 4 degree swings from 76 to 80 in one day! Thats a lot for a reef. If yours doesn't stay below 80 even in the late afternoon every day, then that can cause xenia troubles. Most of the time I don't get up to 80, but, had the a/c off a couple days and it did get there. Fortunately not for long enough to cause my xenia to go flat.

[DeletedAccount]

Both my pH and my nitrates are off from usual. I have definitely stopped dosing the Iodide!

I wish I would have thought to check levels before my change. I did add a few fans when I added the lights so the temp as remained fairly stable, actually better than normal. It is between 77-80. I have only gotten to 80 once according to the temp reader.

I did add lots of carbon this morning. Filled an old Eheim with carbon out the wazoo and am running it.

The tank is about 2 1/2 years old. When I moved stands I did do a partial sand change and switched out some rock, but not much. I checked the water I have mixed up and its pH is at 7.9 or 8.0. So the pH must have been LOW before the change. I still have more water mixed up and will keep doing 10% a day for a while. I will also find a way to put more water through the eheim or borrow a canister. The water goes through fairly slow even on "hi".

Hope that will help. If the Iodide did something then will the carbon help to take it out of the water?

Thanks, everyone!

[OrionN]

I am sorry to hear about your problem. All I can recommend is do more water change and perhaps use kalk to raise you pH a little. Check Alkalinity and dose as need. I would check and dose Ca also, and stop all the other additive.
Is 1.025 Specific gravity or Salinity? Salinity should be at about 35 ppt while SG should be at about 1.025.
Good luck.
Minh

[DeletedAccount]

Contaminates were actually my first concern. My maid comes on Thursdays... Timing to the big deaths would be right. Spray is a very big possibily, though one that I have warned about tons.

Yes, the SG is 1.025, not salinity. Thanks, Minh.

[MikeP]

Sorry to hear about your problems Misti. I add lugols about 10 drops twice a month in my large tank - it's pretty potent. I would think two capfulls could throw things out of whack.

It seems like it would be hard for your PH to get that low - you might want to invest in a PH monitor - saves a lot of headaches and you can get a better handle on daily fluctuations. I have noticed that xenia will stop pulsing at about 7.8 ph but there may be other factors involved.

[Tim Marvin]

Lugols is much more concentated than the reef iodine.

[DeletedAccount]

The xenia never stopped pulsing. They were happy in the morning, dead in the evening....

According to the Reef Iodide directions I was underdosing. Suppose to add 1 capful per 50 gallons every other day.

I check pH every week. I use a lab pH monitor. The only reason I used the Salifert was because I have not calibrated the monitor lately. The pH is never this low. It usually goes from 8.0 to 8.2 during the day. So something has caused my pH is dramatically drop...

More stuff is looking angry this morning. My torch is loosing a few heads this morning. I am going to go cry now. Then scream a little. Then do a small water change.

[DeletedAccount]

Checked for stray voltage. None...

[Sherri]

Hey Misti, I am so sorry you are going thru this...how frustrating. Noticed in the last 2 days, my Xenia has melted also...so, on the Xenia, this is heat related from what I understand? Was wondering what caused my melting.

Hope all this works out quickly for you.

[OrionN]

Misti,
Do a large water change. As large as you can do, up to 100%. To remove bad stuff, there is nothing beat 100% water change. Make sure the salinity is the same and temperature is a little warmer (one or two degree) than tank water. This is because you always loose heat as you pipe them over and it will be tank temperature once it reach the tank.
Age and airate your water for at least 12 hr. If you pay attention to details, your coral will not be stress with 100% water change, and it will remove essentially all the toxins.
Minh

[OrionN]

I got plenty of Xenia. The Redsea Pom-Pom (whitish-pink) Xenia and the White tip Xenia. If you guys and gals want them, just come and get it.
Minh

[Sherri]

The Xenia I have lower in the tank is fine...only the upper Xenia wilted...It must have gotten too warm during the day....guess it's time to look into a chiller.....Thanks Minh for the offer...

[OrionN]

Xenia are well know to crash overnight and, if the mass of the colony is large enough, will crash the tank. I don't think this is what happen to Misti's tank. Misti's Xenia seem to be just a mortality of her tank crashing.
Goodluck Misti.
Minh

[TAXMAN]

Sorry to hear about the tank. But My Xenia have done well at up to 84deg which is what my tank used to run at. Then had a heat problem that it ran between 84-89 for 3 weeks. Bad thermometer. I have added fans and the Xenia are coming back and the tank now runs 80 in the morning and 82 evening.
All my corals had been crashing but all but the acro has pulled through it. I tested everything with no problems found. I couldnt figure out what the issue was. Then found my thermometer was bad and running 88-89 evening.

But as suggested, run carbon, do water changes and I would double check your temp.

[MixedGas]

Low Ph and toxins seem to be at work here. First you need to move (spare tank and hope for the best) or remove any livestock other than fish [by current fish listed, none exude toxin with illness or shock] that are dwinding fast or your toxins will continue too prosper. If you have the capability or a friend that has two med to lrg power filters, ie. Aquaclear 300 or 500. strap them on with a base of well cleaned crushed coral w/ a good quality ammo/carb and a polyfilter on top. Place one intake tube a deep as the pump will pull water and the other mid tank. Rinse all filler and filter daily with cool fresh water. Continue with daily 1/3 water changes and limit lighting to keep stress down.

Good Luck

[MixedGas]

Maybe to explain a little better. Even if you have to hang these filters on the front or side of the tank they will prove to be much more effective than a closed system like the Eheim and maintenance and mess are kept to a minimum. The crushed coral needs to be new, as it will assist in a natural Ph balance that doesn't have to be worked out with chemicals in the long run. The polyfilter as you know will seperate all but the minutest partical ranges and is easily cleaned. If possible get the temp and keep it below 78 as to assist with oxygen and stress. Most of all and it will be problematic, as the animals appear to be near no return, get them into different water with correct perameters and lots of air this will deffinately prevent more harm until you get the tank back to normal.

[Instar]

Yes Misti, If the iodine was a contributor, the carbon will remove it.

[JimD]

I wouldnt go too much lower than 78 degrees, if theres any fish in the tank the lower temp could hasten the onset of ich in an already stressed environent. I would also put as much O2 in the water as possible and crank up the skimmer.

[DeletedAccount]

Flame angel died. No one munched on him at all....

[JimD]

ouch,,,, that hurts......... :-(

[MixedGas]

Forgot to mention the iodine, if this is the first time you are using this as a trace, it should be understood that this can easily corrupt a tank such as yours. The listed practical amounts by manufacturers instructions should never be used upon starting an element change. The animals have to have time to adjust to the new trace count in ppm. Iodine In some cases the immediate effects can be catostrophic. Fish on the other hand can for the most part cope with this change. Iodine is also one of the ions with one of the most toxic potetial.

[DeletedAccount]

I have used Reef Iodide before. I was also using the "Beginner" directions, not the directions for a tank that uses this regularly. Both are listed.

Lawnmower blenny is also dead. I have had him for two and a half years. This is the guy that had another aquarium critter take a huge bite out of one of his gill flaps and got so ill and we pulled him through. He lived through the famous Disney Tank Crash of 2002 when the macro went sexual the night I left and killed almost everything.

Water changes, water changes, water changes and carbon, carbon, carbon...

[DeletedAccount]

Skimmer is pulling lots of stuff. It has never filled up and today it has!

[DeletedAccount]

Mixed Gas -

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the help!

Misti
Board of Directors, Treasurer, Meeting Planner

[Instar]

Water changes will make the skimmer go nuts. I always turn mine down till things settle after a water change and then turn it back up.

It seems a number of people are having xenia crashes and macro crashes and lots of troubles. There are seasonal variations and crashes that happen, especially with macros and xenia. This seems like a good warning to everyone to watch the temperature and changes with all these storms we've had and humidity swings. It wouldn't hurt for most people to do water changes and run some carbon as well. Its just too much coincidence for a number of people to be having crashes at the same time as if all these tanks were connected. Tanks that are 2 years old, nearing 2 or over 2 should be persuaded by Shimek's article on the build up of toxic metals over the first 2 years. He says they reach their high at the two year point and level off, crashing usually after enduring for a while, not more than 4 years. I plan increased frequency of water changes once a year for my tanks that I care about because of his study.

[GaryP]

Iodine certainly couldn't be the cause of the Xenia crashing. I don't think its possible to overtreat Xenia with iodine. It literally soaks up iodine. I soak Xenia in a concentrated Lugol's solution whenever I frag (1 drop per gallon). I have found that it speeds up reattachment.

I think what you may have had was a cascade effect. One thing goes, such as the Leather, and it produces more toxins that produce even more toxins. I think that dead Xenia is terribly toxic. It does a great job of tying up otherwise toxic stuff, but when it crashes it releases it back to the water in fairly large amounts. This is an example of the toxic cascade I was referring to. The cascade results in a pretty potent soup of toxic compounds. I've seen this happen during my fairly extensive experience in killing stuff while moving tanks.

Gary

[DeletedAccount]

Seems to be looking a little better. I have more water to change, but things do seems to be perking up a little, at least what is still alive.