UV Sterilizer

[RobertG]

Ok, After seeing Gators setup with those Dual UV ster.. I ask run them or not.

I was told by LPS not to run a Sterilizer if I have A refugium. Will this info be true or false. I would think everyone will have a different opinion. I would like to hear.

Was told the fuge will house what I want (beneficial) bacteria. Using sterl. would kill this. So I pulled it out of the loop. ( Still have it.) Since then have noticed more fish showing signs of ich. Will go away then will sometimes come back. Since I moved my tank my regal has shown these signs.

In Gators case if they are contributing to the system, I say I'm all for it....

Thanks

[prof]

They are nice on high bioload (FO) tanks and a real luxury on a hospital/quarantine tank. They will kill beneficial fuge creatures. Rather defeatist if you are running a fuge. They do help for algae and parasite control.

[RobertG]

Run Once In awile or never. What about on big tanks? Put in system after the fuge. Like the thought of better parasite control. Will this help against the redmites?

[kaiser]

I run UV on my tank as well. I have it plumbed between the wet/dry and the fuge. Since the UV only allows a flow of 250g/hr it makes for a nice slow flow thru the fuge. The return from the fuge goes back into the sump to the return pump. As far as benefit goes my regal tang doesn't break out every other day as he used to. Water seems to be a bit clearer.

[Gator]

every one i talk to says unplug them, but when i do my fish get spots (mabey in my head) and i plug them back in. talking to matt the other day he thought mabey my fishes imunse system is down do to the sterilizers running since i set up my tan., I have not noticed a problem running them so i just keep them plumbed in the system, as for animals on my rocks at night if you turn on a flashlight they are everywhere, i know i am probally killing some benificial things but i figure if it is working for me why change it, i will proballly try in the future to unplug them again and see what happens.

[Ram_Puppy]

now, I know I am a newb, but aren't there reef safe ich medications? I remember reading about them... I am hesitant to add anything that is a medication to my main tank, but in this case maybe the option is to plug them back in and medicate until you break the ich life cycle?

[RobertG]

Kaiser You hit it on the head. Regal Comes & gos. I think if you & gator are feeling Safe, using it should be OK. Gator do you think this is how your tank has no undisirable algae? :o
I guess I will blow the dust off of it plumb it in. Anyone else using one with fuge inline?

[Gator]

i have learned in this hobby you can get hundreds of diffrent answers on the only way to set up a tank, dont use this use this. but if you take that amazing aquariums book and look at all 50 tanks they are all amazing but everyone of them do stuff alittle diffrent, you have to find the right combination that works for you and your fish. so basicly you just have to read ask questions and take what you have learned from people around you (like mast) adn go with what you feel works for you and make adjustments as you go

[BA]

Hey Gator did you get my P.M. about the sump lights?

[RobertG]

Bump Bump Bump

[RobertG]

Sounds Good Jeff, How big is your fuge. How long reef been established?

[RobertG]

Hey Gator, How long do your UV 's Run? And how many watts are they?

[dan]

that amazing aquariums book and look at all 50 tanks they are all amazing but everyone of them do stuff alittle diffrent,

i agree with gator. all these tank are different. all running different equipment. some running nothing but yet all amazing. what i'm trying to say is there is no right or wrong way.

[RobertG]

I'm gonna run it after hearing Kaiser. Gator something is right over there. Just do it, ask her to forgive you later. LOL Wives what a pain sometimes, sometimes I stated. Oh no here comes the :police: !! Mine ouch. Just got smacked alittle. Women always teaming up. LOL

Thanks

[reefer]

i believe the good outweights the bad when it comes to this device on the tank. i run small 9w uv powered by a mag 5 that pumps about 250gph.

there are 3 types of ultravoilet rays; a, b and c. bulbs used in sterilizer for this hobby produce ultravoilet light in the c spectrum.

found some info on the www....

"What is Ultraviolet Light?
Ultraviolet light is not visible to the human eye, but can be found slightly to the right of visible light on the light spectrum.
Measured in nanometers, UV light has a wavelength lying between 100 and 400 nanometers in length.
UV is divided into three spectrums, namely:
UV-C, also known as Germicidal Irradiation, lies in the spectrum between 100 and 280 nm and is used for purification of air, water and surfaces.
UVB is used for tanning purposes and has a wavelength of between 280 and 315 nm.
UVA, sometimes referred to as black light/blue, lies between 315 and 400 nm and is used within insect control equipment."


"How does UV-C kill microorganisms?

Due to its short wavelength, (200 to 270 nm) UV-C penetrates the outer membrane of bacteria, yeasts, molds and viruses, attacking the DNA which makes up their structure.

By breaking the chains between the two helixes within the DNA, the microorganism is rendered unable to reproduce, i.e. clinically dead.
Each microorganism has differing tolerances to heat, radiation, etc. The microorganism is given a "D-Value" or measure of resistance to being broken down. If this value is known, along with the power given out from the UV-C source, the time take to destroy any given microorganism can be estimated."

[GaryP]

There are basically 2 types of bacteria in a system. The planktonic bacteria that are free-floating. The other type are sessile bacteria that are present in the LS and LR. Many of the planktonic bacteria are "sloughed" off by current and turbulent flow from the sessile areas where they growm. This is their natural means to colonize other areas of the environment. Obviously, the planktonic bacteria will be killed by the UV sterilizer. The sessile bacteria in the LS and LR will not be exposed to UV. The sessile bacteria make up most of the population in a mature system and are where most of the biological activity take place.

One other thing to consider is that many corals feed on the planktonic bacteria and algaes that are in the water. Sarcophyton is one that comes to mind. It feeds almost exclusively on the small stuff like bacteria in water as well as being photosynthetic. So, if you have basically sterile water what are they going to feed on? A lot of things feed on algae as well, including clams.

So I guess my answer would be that its a two edged sword. There are certainly advantages to running a UV, especially in a FO tank. At the same time there are definitely disadvantages.

From my industrial experience with UV units I know that one of their main problems is maintenance. Unless you frequently clean the glass, a film will develop that greatly reduces its effectiveness. I've never run an aquarium UV unit so I'm not sure how easy they are to maintain.

Hope this helps,
Gary

[RobertG]

Thanks for the Great Info. Double edge sword that seems to be on the good side. Surely these things could feed when the water is dosed with DT's or phytoplankton mix. I'm sure not as well, however they could eat still.

Well I hooked it back up. We will see how things turn out. Thanks for the help.
Really appreciated.

[Isis]

A few things to remember about UV sterilization is that it can only penetrate a few nanometers, so if there are more than a couple bacteria floating around together the only ones that will get the "killer" rays would be the top ones. Let alone, if you don't clean your sterilizer on a frequent basis, the inner tubes get "gunked" up with film and the UV light actually becomes useless because it will be having a hard time penetrating throught the film and the bacterial walls. All the bacteria on the underside of the exposed bacteria will not be affected, or will have some damaging rays hit them, but instead of killing the bacteria by destroying the DNA it actually mutates it (hence the whole skin cancer thing with getting too much UV light). Mutants aren't always bad, but they aren't always good either becuase they have different resistances, which our fish populations may not be able to tolerate. The same types of problems occur when antibiotics are over used as well.

Nowadays, UV sterilization isn't used in much in our preservation practices in foods, let alone in hospital-type settings that need lots of sterilization. In fact, you are more likely to find that autoclaves, gamma rays and holgen gases are used more often for sterilization than UV light.

[kaiser]

Working at one of the Hospitals here in town I can tell You they do use UV for water sterilization. They have got one huge watersoftener followed up w/ RO, UV and DI.

[Isis]

But RO/DI water is much different than just just plain jane water from the tap or treatment plant, let alone out of your tank.

[Inno]

To me they are not necessary other than in flow-through breeding systems.

[RobertG]

Interesting, I would like to see the difference. I know what I have now, lets see what happens now that it is inline.
I hope to see improvment!! The best thing about when I had it running before, was I never had any parasite issues. My regal would never go in & out like he has since it was removed. Ich

From what I see, there are Pro's & Cons. I'd say if my reef thrives its OK.

Do's anyone think the size of the tank has any weight on judgement? It seems like it would not hurt a big volume of water. 275 - 300 G Now if I had a 50G 100G system I would be more reluctant to use..

Gator how long do your UV's run ?

[Isis]

IMO I think they really aren't worth the time and money to maintain them. To effectively work, you must clean the tubes frequesntly, change the bulbs on the regular intervals needed, let alone there is no way that 100 % of your water is going through that sterilizer. Basically you are mixing sterile water with non-sterile water. How is that still disinfecting? If you speed up the flow rate, then your UV exposure time is greatly reduced, which then doesn't kill all the bacteria. If you slow it down, then not all the water is being sterilzed before returning to the main tank where it is mixed will the unsterile water.

[RobertG]

Eventually I will see what the benefits are, or the drawbacks. Previously when I ran it I had no parasite issues. This makes me think I might benefit some from it. It is hard to say with all the different opinions. I think this is one to just watch & see.. Isis makes good points, dont you think eventually all the water in the tank at one point will be going through the unit? I would think yes. The flowrate is going at about 100G an hour. I appreciate the input, & will see how it works.

[RobertG]

Notice the question again. Little update my tank is looking better than ever. My Acro's are opening more than before. I have noticed 2 dead pods, really white looking compared to the high numbers I have in my crushed coral in main tank. Seems to have taken Ich right away. My regal tang is the best he has ever looked. I am thinking it is great. I have been running it on timer it runs with fuge time. About 8 or so hours.

I seem to have more things coloring up!! I dont know, just gonna keep looking..

[kaiser]

IMO I think they really aren't worth the time and money to maintain them. To effectively work, you must clean the tubes frequesntly, change the bulbs on the regular intervals needed, let alone there is no way that 100 % of your water is going through that sterilizer. Basically you are mixing sterile water with non-sterile water. How is that still disinfecting? If you speed up the flow rate, then your UV exposure time is greatly reduced, which then doesn't kill all the bacteria. If you slow it down, then not all the water is being sterilzed before returning to the main tank where it is mixed will the unsterile water.

Then why do You bother to filter Your water? You just dump it straight back into dirty water. According to the manufacturer the bulb in my UV only has to be changed once a year. The tubes inside of it are some material that doesn't permit algae to grow on it.

[reefer]

personal preference, imo.

isis, does u.v. kill the bacteria colonies that are already living and reproducing in the liverock? no, it could however limit the growth of the colonies by eliminating the freefloaters in the watercolumn. but even when they are zapped there is still some oragnic residue that can be absorbed by the corals as food.

imo, running a u.v. on a soft coral reeftank could be conisdered coounterproductive, since some of the critters zapped are their natural prey and food source, so you would want to minimize the use of u.v. if you chose to use one. like someone posted earlier, running it on a timer is a great alternative.

lps and sps reeftanks could utilize the improved water quality, since they seem to be more photo driven than anything else.

the newest thing to be offered to the hobbiest is bio-spira. you can reseed your tank with this stuff, which is live denitrifing bacteria, and in a few days of no skimming or uv, have a seasoned tank again.
:cool:

[jng3]

the newest thing to be offered to the hobbiest is bio-spira. you can reseed your tank with this stuff, which is live denitrifing bacteria, and in a few days of no skimming or uv, have a seasoned tank again.
:cool:

I don't find this product available on the net. Do you know where to get "bio-spira"? Thanks

[reefer]

Partners Pets carries this in north austin.
8)

[DeletedAccount]

I think that one of the great things about UV is that they only do sterilze a small portion of the water column. This REDUCES the free floating bacteria and infectious agents but does not eliminate the food source entirely. Reduction in pathogens is all we can hope for. There is virtually no way to totally eliminate the bad stuff, but reducing it helps.

[RobertG]

Reducing is really my goal. I have noticed a little more little mysis floating dead. I have cut my 25 W UV back to three hours. I noticed this last night when I got home. Ahh 12 hours was a little much. Especially with a 25 W...