Pump Advice

[alexwolf]

Need advice on a new pump. I am thinking of upgrading my little giant 3 mdqx, and using it as a closed loop pump. I would have to get a new return pump, for a 175. I have heard Iwaki are good, anythig else thats quiet?

[technomex]

I have only great things to say about my T-4 return pump. It is so incredibly quiet you swear it is off.

[alexwolf]

T-4? Im not familiar

[technomex]

It is made by CSL. They are going out of business though. You can see it at marine depot and get it pretty cheap. It has a noise rating of only 30 db's and it can crank some water.

[Henry]

I would go iwaki or dolphin. I have heard that the t-4 will add heat to the water. Are you going to have a fuge in the sump? If so you might consider having a larger pump on the closed loop and a smaller one on the return.

[matt]

I have a T3 running my skimmer. It is super quiet and has good pressure characteristics. But, it runs very hot. It's raised the temp of my 110 at least a degree, probably two in the summer. I may have to get a different skimmer pump. Supposedly, you can put a fan on them to cool them down a little.

Check out the pan world pumps, AKA blueline HD. Very similar to the japanese iwakis, supposed to be a little quieter. Premium sells them as pan world, champion sells them as blueline HD.

[alexwolf]

The fuge is a 20l fed back to the sump. I just want to make sure i have enough flow, my little giant is BARELY making it now on my 135........i think it will be a fine closed loop pump, with a SQWD. Ill have Gabe build a little shelf on the back of the canopy so there is no head. :D I heard good things about the blueline also, do you guys think 1200 GPH is enough rating?

[JesterGrin_1]

Your very question has drove me nuts as well. But from all of the input that I have gotten it seems as if the Iwaki Japanese model is the way to go. a Dolphin will go maybe 7 to 8 years of service where as the Iwaki will go 10 years and more some have told me 15 years now that is a pump with a return on money spent.

[Gator]

i have a blueline 70 and i like it alot, i also have t2 t3 t1 they do put out tons of heat but you can not even hear them ever the only way to tell if they are on is touch tehm

[debutis]

I would look into the dolphin pumps. I have a dolphin Super Aqua Seas 5600. Does 5600GPH at 4'. Have it running on my 135 and it supplys water to my chiller, both returns, and fuge above tank. Prolly about 15' of head total and still have to turn it down on both returns so that it doesn't flood the tank.

[matt]

Alex, what do you mean, "you'll build a shelf so there's no head" If you're draining water from your tank into a sump, then pumping that back up, the head loss is the difference in height between your sump level and your tank level. It doesn't make any difference where the pump is, and almost all pumps must be mounted below the level they are pumping from. Otherwise if the power goes out and comes back on you'll run your pump dry and burn it out. The blueline 70 is not one of the pumps I'm talkng about. I believe those are more like the genX mak 4, which is also a good pump, but a little loud for my tastes. The problem with a dolphin for a return pump is that your overflow may not be able to handle the amount of flow; those things really pump out the water. Also, you would have to change your existing plumbing to 1.5", including your bulkheads. The dolphins won't work with 1" lines.

[alexwolf]

at Aquatic Warehouse, they had 2 pumps set up on a closed loop, the pumps are literally on the center brace.

[wkopplin]

I have been experimenting with an Iwaki above the water line and when the power goes off, it loses all ability to draw water. It will not draw water at all without significant priming. Sounds like an expensive mistake waiting to happen. I would not use an Iwaki as your closed loop pump. It is not a quiet pump. Sounds like a small jet engine. However, if you do go with one, it is a great pump and I will be willing to buy it from you when you realize how loud it is.

[ratboy]

You should also consider the power drawn. Sometimes a small step up in water output is the result of a big jump in energy consumption.

[matt]

Alex, that's on a closed loop; meaning the water is sealed inside the circuit. You could put the pump on a center brace, above, below, wherever, it doesn't matter. There's no head loss; there's only one water level, and as we know, water always seeks to equalize levels in a circuit. You're talking about pumping water from from one resting level (sump) to another. (tank) Completely different situation. Make sense?

[alexwolf]

thats what ive been talking about, using my current pump, Little Giant 3MDQX as a closed loop and getting a new one as a return.

[captexas]

I have a Sequence 1000 pump I'll sell you. It is rated at 4300gph. I just put new seals on it. Unfortunately, I don't have anything I can hook it up to right now to test it and see it in action. I would like to test it on my tank, but it would be a pain to swap it out from my Amp 2100.

[alexwolf]

4300GPH?????? man this isnt a swimming pool, you dont think thats a bit of overkill??? lol

[alexwolf]

how much? :grin:

[wkopplin]

My return pump does 4750gph.

[alexwolf]

yeah but you are pushing 20,000 gal of water. Cap Nemos submarine engines didnt puch as much water as your pump. :moon:

[captexas]

Josh - if you have a tank we can hook it up to I'll bring it over. I'm would really like to test it out.

Alex - That amount is reduced one you add pipe and elbows and stuff on to it. I have an Amp 2100 that is rated at like 2700gph at 0 head, but the way I have mine set up I am getting very little flow through the tank. I either need a stronger pump or to redo my sump/plumbing which is no easy task. If you are hoping to have SPS corals in your tank you need a lot of water movement. I think the suggested water turnover rate is around 30 times an hour. So if you have a 175g tank, that would be over 5000gph. I have a Mag 12 on a closed loop and the 2100 as my sump return and I still don't have enough. It's ok for the soft corals and fish though.

[alexwolf]

im sure that will explode my SQWD, how do you create current? and, how much?

[captexas]

With pumps that big, you want to split up the return line to a couple outputs on the tank. I have my sump pump splitting to two outputs (had sqwds) that then split to 4 return bulkheads on the back of the tank. Do you mean current as in water flow/movement in gph? One thing to remember is that if you have 1000gph coming out of a 1/2in outlet it will create a lot more turbulence in the tank than if it were coming out a 1in or larger outlet. Same amount of water being moved, just at more pressure with the smaller pipe. If a fish swam in front of the 1/2 outlet it would get blown to the other side of the tank.

Just more fun issues to deal with when setting up a tank! If you don't mind having powerheads in the tank, then you can get a smaller return pump. There are an infinate number of ways to plumb a tank so it's good just to check out how others have their tanks to get some ideas.

[alexwolf]

well, i was going to stick with the little giant as a return, and use a mag 18 on a SQWD for closed loop. If needed, I can add another closed loop later.

[captexas]

I know you are eager to get the tank up and going, but it is much easier to do things before it is setup than later on. Once that tank is loaded with rock and water, there is no moving it out from the wall for more room for pipes and such and no drilling it for more bulkheads.

Definately take your time and make sure you have it planned out how you want it. That will make life much easier down the road.

[alexwolf]

oh im not drilling it anymore!!!

[matt]

Alex; you might check out a recent thread on the calfo return manifold. It's a way of spreading out the return flow throughout the tank; seems like a good thing.

As far as the big flow in your tank, I'd suggest doing most of it in a closed loop. It's quieter and more reliable, and energy efficient because there's no head pressure. BTW, even if you mount the pump on the bottom of the stand there's still no head pressure. Having it up doesn't give you any extra flow except for the slightly smaller friction loss due to shorter lines.

I've heard really great things about sequence pumps. What's the size of the in/out on that pump?

[captexas]

Matt - It's got 1.5in. female threaded in and out on it. It's a few years old, but I just put new seals on it. It's been sitting here waiting for some water! Where was that thread on the calfo return?

Alex - Matt is right. These days many people are looking to decrease the flow through the sump and have most of the tank water flow as a result of a closed loop(s). Really all depends on how big your sump will be and what you want to use it for.

[alexwolf]

thats my plan, i think i figured out that im getting 800+ gph out of the little giant, which is a VERY quiet pump. I am going to start out with a Mag 18 on a closed loop, and depending on how the test with Blake comes out on that new 4 or 8 way thiing, I can add another later. I am scared to have anyone drill a new $1000 tank, so i will just plumb it over the back, its not THAT ugly!

[::pete::]

If done neatly its not noticeable except for your outlets in the tank that will eventually be covered in corralline