lighting

[Ross]

I am setting up a new tank and want to have mh lighting. I probably won't have a canopy so i just to have a pendant. Will just one 20k bulb give me good color. I don't want to have to buy one with the powercompacts in it. Can someone recomend a good ballast/pendant.

[Derek B]

Geez Ross .. guess that depends on how big the tank is. The general rule is 1 mh bulb per 2 feet of tank length. The deeper the tank, the higher the wattage (need more umph to get the intensity to the bottom of the tank) unless you want lesser light demanding corals on the bottom layer.

You can't go wrong with PFO. I have a standard PFO dual 250 watt ballast and it has been great. Icecap is a little overpriced (you can get just as good equipment for less), but is well made none the less.

[Ross]

Well i will probably either have a 30 or a 58. I could probably build a simple canopy if i had too. Would a 250w mh with a maybe 55wats of pc actinic be enough to keep sps and clams?

[Ross]

Ohh yeah.....does anyone know anything about the ballast from diyreef.com. It seems like a good deal....but it might be junk.

[Derek B]

Ross,

A 250 watt with some actinic suppliments would be plenty on a 30 gallon... but not IMO on a 58. A 58 will be 4 feet long. You need 2 mh for that tank for sure. Please ... please ... please spend the money and get the appropriate lighting before buying animals that you do not have the capacity to keep. If there is one thing that I have learned in this hobby, it is don't skimp out.

As far as the diy ballast, you get what you pay for man. Don't let a low price reel you in. There are good deals out there, but if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

On top of that, there are several types of ballast (electronic, magnetic, pulse start, probe start ...... you get my drift) and different bulbs require different ballasts. I can't express how important it is to do some research at a place like Reefcentral.com before buying anything. It saved my hide numerous times.

[Ed]

FWIW, a standard 58g is 36x18x20.

[Derek B]

Still, 1 250 watt bulb is not enough light for 3 ft of length to keep SPS long term. If you kept the SPS directly under the mh bulb toward the middle or upper part of the tank, then you would be ok.

[Tim Marvin]

Are we assuming it is a standard rectangle? Not cube, cylinder, flat back hex, hex, breeder, or custom made? More info is needed. One would be fine on a cube or hex, maybe even a breeder. I am running the 75 corner tank on one 250w de/hqi, one 96w quad pc smart light and 2-65w pc actinic.

[matt]

IMO, you shuld be researching much more than generalizations about light if you're looking to set up a sps/clam tank. I'm sure you have thught of this, but lighting is really only a part of the puzzle, and maybe one of the easier to solve. The way you put the question gives me the impression that you have to think about other factors in keeping corals and clams healthy. First off, if you're choosing between a 30 (I assume long, 36X12) and a 58, definitely go for the 58. The extra space on the footprint will give you better luck with establishing a sand bed, and you'll find the shape much easier to work with, in flow characteristics, auascaping, and lighting possibilities.

[Derek B]

Good points Matt.

[Ross]

I probably will go with the 58. Can someone recomend a good ballast. I don't really know what to look for.

I am not looking to specficially set up a sps/clame tank, but i would like to keep a few. I'm not sure if you guys know, but i'm only 15 and don't have a job yet. It is really hard to set up a reef w/not much money.........thats why i'm going slow. Don't worry about me getting animals that i can't properly take care of...thats why i go to this board and swf.com.

I just can't afford to spend $400 or $500 on lights. Thats why i just want to go with 1 mh right now and maybe this summer when i get a job i can get another.

[Tim Marvin]

Ross, you would be OK with one 250w de/hqi over the middle of a 45 breeder tank. These tanks are wider and more shallow. Most of the people that own these tanks love them. You'd have to put your sps and clam in the middle of the tank and have the light a few inches above the water, but you'd do well with this arrangement. A couple actinic 65w PC on the front and back would help greatly. I think you'd love this nano set-up it makes you feel like you have a big tank.

[Ross]

Thanks tim

I just got the 58. I can't wait to set it up. Does hellolights have good ballasts. I notice there pretty cheap, but everyone seems to talk good about them.

[Tim Marvin]

They are a great company, but not "cheap". Inexpensive is a much better word. Our club president buys all his lighting from them, and he has the most unbeleivable/beautiful tank in the entire country. Possible the world.....LOL.....Really though if you wait a little bit I can predict a group order from hellolights coming through before the meeting. I could be wrong though, it is just a hunch.

[Ross]

Ok great.

I will see what comes up.

[JimD]

Im running a single 400w 10k xm with two vho actinics on my 65g sps clam tank. 36 x 18 x 20 something with outstanding results! IMO, a single halide, 10k or Iwasaki is plenty sufficiant, Id steer clear of the 250w xm 20k's, unless youre just doing softies. Although, the 400 watters arent to bad with 10k suppliments. Lighting can be complicated at times, you just have to decide what youre going to have in the tank and what look youre trying to achieve. Halides imo are less expensive than most other options out there.

[Ross]

Thanks jim

I was thinking about maybe a 10k bulb with a couple pc of vho actinics.

Ohh yeah....my tank is 58 gallons and the dimensions are 36x18x21. Are you sure your tank really is 65 gallons? just wonderin

[Derek B]

Jim,

Just wondering why you say to steer clear of the 20K XM's. There are many who keep SPS under them including myself. Am I missing a critical piece of info on these bulbs as they relate to SPS???

[Tim Marvin]

Hmmmm....... I was going to get a couple 20k xm DE...... Jim N feels they work best for SPS......What is going on JimD?

[matt]

I think it's a matter of intensity. JimN has 5 or 6 400 watt bulbs, so he can use whatever type of bulb he wants and still get lots of intensity.

Ross; John Moffett, an expert coral propogater, used single 400 W iwasakis over 45 breeders for most of his grow out tanks. Although your tank is a few inches deeper, I'm pretty sure you'd have plenty of light with one, and they're the least expensive route. There's a guy who wrote a DIY plan for wiring your own ballast. I'm pretty sure hellolights has a good deal on "raw" ballasts; these are M58 (I think) which is the standard ballast used in PFO fixtures and such. They'll power a variety of bulbs. My suggestion is that you look on their site for the "raw" ballast deal; it's something around $50. Then you have to buy either a pendent fixture, which is expensive, or a socket/reflector, which is much less money, and build your own enclosure. The bulb, if you get an iwasaki, is about $70 I think. You could also get an ushio, which will look better without actinic support, or the XM bulb (10k) which i don;t know about but lots of people really like. With a single 400W bulb of one of these three types, you'll have plenty of light. Then you just have to convince someone to help you wire up the ballast, and you'll have to buy a box and some wire at home depot or Lowes. Since you're 15, I bet one of our members who has some expertise in this will be glad to help you wire it up.
That's the low cost route to go for mh lighting. I really thought about doing that at one time, but the PFO set up (ballast, all wired in a nice box, reflector, socket) was reasonable so I bought it instead. It is a substantial amount more, though. Tim's suggestion of a single DE HQI pendent is excellent, but more expensive. You can expect to pay over $300 for a set up like that. But, the light is very high quality, and the mini pendents just hang over your tank, making heat much less of an issue.

Don't forget about the other very important things to get together though; you're going to need a good return pump, if you're going with a sump, as well as the expense of getting your tank drilled for an internal overflow. Even though this stuff will set you back, you'll be very happy you have a sump once it's set up.

[JimD]

Tim, Im refering to the 250w SE, I believe youre thinking about the XDE. I didnt know Jim was experimenting with the DE's. I know hes been using the 20k 400w xm's with the 10k xm's, all SE. Derek, Im refering to the 250w 20k XM's, they will support sps in the near field of the lamp, its intensity deteriorates rapidly the farther away from the lamp you get. I personally, wouldnt attempt to keep sps under "one" unless your tank is very shallow or you have more than one depending on tank size. Ive seen the 250 in action and to me they seem very dim compared to the 400w version. Ive used the 400 watter for several months and ended up going back to 400w 10k. This is just my observation and my opinion.

[Jimnorris]

Ross,
Lighting is the topic of the next meeting! I have only used 400 watt MHs. Sakis, Ushios, Radium, and XMs. The Ks range was 6,500 to 20,000.
I know nothing about 250, 175, 150, 70 watt Mhs. I recommended the 20,000ks to Tim based on the color it brings out in sps corals.
My tank I am running six 400 watt MHs. All six are XMs from Hellolights. I was running all 20,000ks but just tried two of the 10,000ks. And I like the combo!
Jim

[Ross]

Thanks guys

Matt.....that sounds like a good idea. I will look for the ballast and stuff on hellolights. I guess i will go with just one 400w mh. I'm still not sure whether i should go with 10k or 20k. I will have some actinic, but maybe not right away(will have to wash a few cars and do some yard work).

About the pump and stuff, i have a mag 7 that i will probably use. I also have an overlfow box to match it already. I am afraid to death to get this tank drilled.

[JimD]

IE; Lighting, Ross, remember this when it comes to supplimental lighting, when using 10k's, suppliment with actinic 03's, when using 20k's, suppliment with 10k's. Dont sup 20k's with actinic, the result will be wayyy too blue.

[Jimnorris]

Ross,
I would start with the one 400 watter and use a 10,000XM bulb. If you needed to start with just one light. I think you would like that.
Jim

[Ross]

Ok cool

I found just the ballast, its magnetic. I guess electronic is better, but they don't have any 400w electronic ballasts.

http://hellolights.com/40magmagm59b.html

[JimD]

I agree with Jim, the 10k xm is a fine choice, with a little 03, youll be in reef heaven.

[manny]

Ross, what happened to the last tank that cracked? Did it crack from when you drilled it or what?

JimD or anybody else that can answer, is there anything wrong with supplementing a 20K XM with actinics besides being too blue? I mean will the corals be missing out on some important part of light that comes from the 10K? I was just wondering cause I just set up my new canopy with a 250 Watt 20K XM and 2 39W Actinic T5s.

Might be sellin some brand new T5s if there is gonna be somethin missin.

[Jimnorris]

Manny,
I do not think there is any wrong with what you have. I added two 10,000ks to my tank because after six or so months of loving just 20,000ks JimD made me! No I wanted alittle more white. How do you like the light color of your tank? Can you post pictures?
Jim

[JimD]

Ever notice how much more colorfull corals are at the 3' to 15' depth in the ocean? Thats because the red wavelengths havent had a chance to be filtered out yet by the water, the deeper you get the bluer the water appears. Corals need a certain ammount of both wavelengths to accell. Thats why lighting manufacturers are beating their heads against the wall to produce that "perfect" lamp and we as hobbiests are in a contsant search of that "perfect" combination. IMO, its imperative to have some lighting in the 5.5k to 10k in a healthy reef.

[manny]

I have some pictures but they always come out ALOT more bluer than what my actual tank looks like in person. I like the color but I'm curious to see what some 10K T5s would look like. Also, won't the XMs lose some of the blueness after they "burn in"? I'll post some pics

[JimD]

The XM will indeed get whiter as time goes by, you may in fact want to lessen the ammount of 10k determened by the age of the XM. I think youll be happier with the 10k's as opposed to the 03's. Heck, try it both ways, you can always return the one you dont like.

[Ross]

Yes it cracked from where they drilled it. Thad Zeigler glass did it. He was gonna charge $25 but the hole sucked so bad he only charged $15. It had chips all around the edges.

[matt]

Ross;

That ballast is fine; it will work perfectly for your set up. You also need the parabolic reflector with mogule socket they have on sale for $30, and a 400W bulb; probably try the XM 10000K for $70. That brings your cost to about $160 (extra shipping on the ballast) plus whatever you'll need to spend for a box and wire at H.D. This is the cheapest way to go for a quality mh set up. The PFO option at premium aquatics is about $250:
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code =PFO400W10KR&Category_Code=PFOr

Either way you'll get good lighting. The advantage with the PFO set up is that it's ready to go, and, if you get the parallel reflector, you'll get a better light spread for your tank; you need a fairly rectangular light spread. It'll cost a little extra for that reflector, but it did test better and fits your tank better. Plus, it has brackets for adding P.C. actinic support.

Okay, though, I think you really should get the tank drilled. Tamer, the guy at Aquatic Warehouse, does it reasonably. I don't think a mag 7 is a good choice for a return pump, it's way underpowered for your size tank and will definitely fail at some point if you use it as a return pump. Instead, consider a decent external pump that will put out about 800-1000 gph. It's your choice, but believe me, you'll be much happier in the long run with a drilled tank and a solid, reliable circulation pump. Water flow is every bit as important to coral health and growth as lighting is.

[manny]

Sorry for hijackin your thread Ross but hopefully this will help you decide on what kinda of lighting your gonna use.

Here's some pics. One of when I had two 96W pcs. One actinic, one 10K. The other of what I have now. 1 250W XM 20K and 2 39W actinic T5s. These are over my 30 Gallon

[Ross]

I do want to get my tank drilled, but my parents are not wanting to. There like" i really don't want you to do that, i won't drive you there". I will call aquatic warehouse and see what they can do. Unless i get some stuff sold, i won't be able to afford anything. LOL

[Tim Marvin]

JimD,
JimN isn't trying the 250 DE/HQI they are mine and I was going to try them... Good idea or bad?

[Henry]

Ross, I think you should get the tank drilled and get a larger pump, preferably an external pump. I don't want to start a family feud, but if your parents are okay with getting the tank drilled I'll pick it up and take it for you. Also does this tank have a center brace, I can't remember.

[JimD]

Tim, Ive heard nothing but good things about the 250w DE HQI, I thought you were already using those? Roger at Aqua Tech has some 250w hqi 10k pendents on his coral tank that look pretty sweet.