Building Refugium. Need some q's answered.

[Saltyintraining]

Tank is running fine all parameters are good except nitrates. I am considering building a sump/refugium and have a few questions. I really need some answers and if anyone wants to help put it together I'll buy the beer and Rudy's BBQ.

Currently I have an Oceanic Model 2 sump. I have no room under my tank in the cabinet so I am planning on purchasing acrylic and having it cut locally in town. I have never worked with acylic so any suggestions would be helpful.

Questions:

1) For a sump/refugium I am assuming I will need to slow down the flow through the refugium. Currently I am running a Mag 1800 as my primary pump. I have been told several times that my pump is too powerful for my 175 gallon tank.

Is 1800 gallons per hour minus the 4.5 ft up the pump is pushing the water up to the tank too much?

Could I drop down to a pump that pushes less volume?

What would be the best external pump for my setup?

2) Please look over ht drawing below and let me know if this would be a good design. I have taken ideas from several posts on multiple forums. I can revise the drawing if need be.

http://www.mylittleocean.com/Torrey's%20Sump%20Design
20Version%202.jpg[img]


3) Is the way I should be going or am I way off track?


Please post criticism or ideas. I really need help.

Thanks,

Torrey

[Saltyintraining]

Sorry, here is the picture.

http://www.mylittleocean.com/Torrey's%20Sump%20Design%20Version%202.jpg

[PeeJ]

first thing i notice is the very small volume in the evoporation portion of the sump....i would increase the volume "just in case"

it might not be a huge problem if you are running auto top off, but i would still recommend it.

[matt]

If you've never worked with acrylic, probably you're better off getting someone who's got some experience to make it for you. But, if you do it yourself, here's some advice. This might conflict with what they tell you at the acrylic store. They usually don't deal with stuff that has to handle any significant water pressure.

1. Use cell cast acrylic, preferably spartech polycast or cyro GP
2. Use weldon#4, not #3, and use the "pin gap" method of getting a good flow of solvent. If you don;t know about this, you can research on reefcentral.
3. Make sure your edges are prepped well; this almost always means finishing them on a jointer or router table. Any irregularity or saw blade marks will probably mean a leak.

There's a huge thread on reefcentral about working with acrylic, started by a guy named 'acrylicman' or something. It's at least 20 pages long, and amounts to a huge FAQ on working with acrylic. Although I was taught somethings a little differently than what's on there, it's a great all around source of information about DIY acrylic stuff.

Good luck; if you're making a decent size refugium, like 30"X 16" or so, expect to pay at least $100 for good quality cast acrylic. If it's spartech or cyro and you want to get a full sheet, I'll buy your leftover stuff if there are pieces big enough for me to make a new sump/refugium for my nano. It could work out cheaper for you.

[PeeJ]

Also, if you spill some weldon on the acrylic, it is in my experience to let it evaporate rather than wipe it. youll wind up with a yucky lookin fuge. the white residue left over can be whiped off.

[Saltyintraining]

PeeJ-- Thanks for the input. I am revising the drawing and inserting it. Good info on evaporation. I didn't thank about that. I am running a Tunze auto topoff but I do need some margin for error.

Matt- I will look for the Acrylic thread in Reefcentral and learn all I can. Great info. That is why I was offering Rudy's and Beer. The beer would be after the weldon is applied.

Here is a revised drawing with some of your recommendations and other recommendations on reefaquariumguide.com.

http://www.mylittleocean.com/Torrey's%20Sump%20Design%20Version%203.jpg

What about my pumps. Is it too powerful for my tank and will the flow be too fast for the refugium?

Please keep the info coming.

Thanks,

Torrey

[PeeJ]

I believe that the flow rate might be too high for the fuge,, but I am not fully educated on this subject.

If it were my tank, I would basically chop the "refugium" section of this sump, and create a totally seperate tank for the fuge. I wish I would draw out my idea for you.

This way, you could circulate water between your sump and fuge with a small power head.

[Saltyintraining]

I also posted this in reefcentral if you have already seen this. If you want the visio drawing so you can use it for your own designs or want to modify it let me know.

I have received lots of great ideas on my design and here is my final drawing.

I have decided to put a smaller pump in my sump for the return to slow the tank turnover which will slow the flow through the refugium. I am going to increase my circulation within my main tank with a Tunze Turbella Stream system with wave controller.

****Please answer return pump questions****

Currently I have a Euro-Reef CS62+ skimmer in my sump. With a 175 Gallon Bowfront RR with two overflows draining into my sump. I have a single 3/4" return tubing from the return pump Y-ing into two returns with water height being about 59" at the top of my tank. What would be the best size pump for my system if I wanted to slow down tank turnover for my refugium. Currently I am running a Mag1800.


*** About how many GPH do I want going through a 15 gallon refugium?***

Please look over my final design and let me know if you think this is going to work.

Thank you,

Torrey
I have received lots of great ideas on my design and here is my final drawing.

I have decided to put a smaller pump in my sump for the return to slow the tank turnover which will slow the flow through the refugium. I am going to increase my circulation within my main tank with a Tunze Turbella Stream system with wave controller.

****Please answer return pump questions****

Currently I have a Euro-Reef CS62+ skimmer in my sump. With a 175 Gallon Bowfront RR with two overflows draining into my sump. I have a single 3/4" return tubing from the return pump Y-ing into two returns with water height being about 59" at the top of my tank. What would be the best size pump for my system if I wanted to slow down tank turnover for my refugium. Currently I am running a Mag1800.


*** About how many GPH do I want going through a 15 gallon refugium?***

Please look over my final design and let me know if you think this is going to work.

Thank you,

Torrey



http://www.mylittleocean.com/Torrey's%20Sump%20Design%20Version%20Final.jpg

[Saltyintraining]

Sorry, here is the image.


http://www.mylittleocean.com/Torrey's%20Sump%20Design%20Version%20Final.jpg

[matt]

Just so you know, if you have 3/4" return line with some tees/elbows, whatever, and any decent amount of head pressure, I'm certain your mag is not delivering much more than 1000gph. Mags are over rated for flow, and have poor pressure curves. This is fine for circulation, just be aware that you are not getting anywhere near 1800gph. If you don't believe it, try an iwaki 70rlt; rated for less flow, but you won't believe how much more water it's pushing around in a return set up with some head and friction loss. If you're concerned about too much flow through the refugium, you can tee off your main drain line, send some to the skimmer and some to the refugium. You can then modify your sump to send the skimmer output directly to the return area. One convenient way of doing this is to put the return area in the middle, and the refugium area on the right of your drawing. Then both sections flow to the center chamber, where you put your bulkhead for the return pump. If you're asking about return pumps, the best I know of are the japanese iwaki pumps. You want the rxt models, which are high flow/low pressure pumps. I have a 40rxt on a closed loop, and it's a great, reliable pump.

[wkopplin]

I was facing the same thing. Did not want the flow rate through the fuge to be too high. I ended up splitting the sump and fuge so I could better control the flow rate through the fuge.

[reefer]

this looks alot like the cpr auqafuge pro i have running on my 75gl. you might consider saving yourself the effort of building this, and order one of those;)