what's the deal with Blue Tangs?

[SuperXdude]

I've been looking at picking up a blue tang (regal) for about a month, and cannot find one, except ar $50 and up, if I can find one at a store period.

I know demand has pushed them up since Finding Nemo came out on video/DVD, but this is kinda rediculous...



X

[kaiser]

A lot of the LFS quit carrying them becuase of ick issues. They are so touchy and break out easy. So the few LFS that still carry them know to jack up the prices. I guess come late spring and warmer temps they will be easier to come by.

[SuperXdude]

My yellow tang is kinda lonely swimming amongst the damsels. Needs someone his own size to swim with...

[kaiser]

alamo aquatics usually carries them. I would call them and find out when they expect their next shipment in. You know a bunch of distributors shut down for the holidays.

[matt]

These fish are really likely to get sick from parasites. I'd consider getting a tank raised one from inland aquatics; I think they're $40. You'll have to pay shipping, but I'd take some live sand/fauna from them and split shipping with you.

Matt

[Jenn]

Not too long ago I posted about doing a group order from Inland Aquatics - I have a pair of captive reared med. Regals on order and they say it will be toward the end of the month. If nothing else comes up, I will do a group order w/ you. Their Regals are pricey, but I am willing to give it a shot with them not being wild caught.

[alexwolf]

theyre getting an order on tues

[Andrew]

A lot of the LFS quit carrying them becuase of ick issues. They are so touchy and break out easy. So the few LFS that still carry them know to jack up the prices. I guess come late spring and warmer temps they will be easier to come by.

Some stores are more expensive because when they lose one fish, they need to sell another to just hit even. Also, this depends on what supplier the fish was ordered from - the more reputable suppliers are usually a little more expensive:

A realistic example: A store pays $18.00 to Quality Marine for a medium blue regal, factor in $2 worth for shipping = 20.00. The fish gets ick or another more dificult disease to treat, such as uronema, and dies after the brief warranty is up. The store loses 20.00, plus whatever time spent on acclimation, quarantine (if done), and treating the fish (time is a cost, as well as medicines). The store then sells another blue regal for 40.00 (only $20 of this is profit, because of fish cost and shipping=20.00). But, the first regal mentioned, died (account stood at -20.00). Add -20$ (fish lost), with 20$ (profit from fish sold) and you arrive at a net profit of $0.00.

It goes to show that owning and operating a pet store, especially one only devoted to fish, especially marine tropicals, is not simple, and more often than not, unprofitable.

Andrew

[matt]

That's a good case for supporting captive breeding and rearing operations.

[Andrew]

Definitely

andrew

[::pete::]

So ... I was told Tangs are prone to ich. It is in them and something along the line of stress will bring it on, is this true?

[Jenn]

I am no expert, but I would say yes. I have lost 2 - one wedged himself into a piece of coral and couldn't get out, and the other was so small he was afraid of the bigger guys in the tank and never came out of this hole. They seem to have some type of nervous disorder that makes them vunerable to stressful situations and in turn brings on ich. My next will be a medium size - I think may give it a little edge over the smaller ones. Just my opinion.

[captexas]

I have had one for over a year now and it has gotten ich a couple of times. Every time it is after some major event (moving tanks, moving rock around, problems, etc.). They just seem to get stressed more readily than other fish and perhaps their immune systems are just not as strong as others. I have always used Kent Garlic Extreme to treat for the ich and the fish always gets better. If you are planning on getting one, just remember that they do get stressed easily and will also wedge themselves inbetween pieces of rock so be very careful moving rock around in the tank.

As far as pricing goes, I think I paid like $30 for mine a year ago and it was a small one. Pricing is also affected by availability and now that winter is here, the divers are not going out as often so there are fewer fish for the LFS. Of course the Finding Nemo movie didn't exactly help things either. No telling how many regal tangs died thanks to that movie.

[::pete::]

I too have tangs (powder brown, regal, yellow), but after reading the post and the comment from the LFS I got a little concerned. I dont want to have to treat the fish and lose something in the process, but it seems from pics posted and in the gallery we all have tangs. I guess Im just preparing myself in case. Chris how did you use the kent garlic?

[matt]

I'm pretty sure regal tangs are social in nature, but we rarely keep a shoal of them. This can especially stress juveniles. When I see several in a big commercial tank, they usually swim together. Also, these fish need lots of swimming room. No matter how high quality water you might have in a small tank, they will not thrive over the long term in a small tank.

[captexas]

Some people add the garlic to the food on a regular basis. I prefer to only use it when there is a problem. I usually put a couple of drops in the tank (as per the instructions) and add 2 drops to the frozen food I use as it thaws. I also sometimes as 2 drops to a sheet of seaweed soaking in a little water and then put the seaweed in the tank on a clip for the tangs to eat. Always seem to have good luck with it. The Kent Garlic Xtreme stuff is a little expensive and I think many people simply use a garlic extract from the grocery store instead.

[Tim Marvin]

I'm considering an order from ERI. They have regals. I can do good sized ones for $45 each if we order enough. Like 10. Jenn wants 2 so another 8.

[Jenn]

I almost exactly follow the same program with Kent Garlic Xtreme, but I use it every other day regardless.

[Instar]

I only use the garlic in an emergency. My regals are very healthy and I feel so guilty about that now.:) Especially since I got them for a lot less than this from Aquatic Warehouse. They were small, perhaps $29 each, about 6 weeks ago. They were healthy from day one, dropped right into my reef. Never a spot, but, then its kinda warm in there. They sleep wedged in beween corals and rocks and get lots of fresh green to eat. I dosed garlic once in the past, at full strength for the copperbands and it made half the house stink for a couple of days. Don't want that!

Tangs are more prone to ick, but, keep the temp up there around 82 to 84 and it won't be so much of a problem. Mine swings from 79 to 81 or 2 and 81 to 84 depending on seasons. After they are settled and their mucous healed up from handling and netting, then ick is not really an issue with them any more providing they are getting fed a healthy diet a couple times a day.

[Instar]

I do use Marc Weiss Reef Vital DNA Professional occassionally when I add a new fish or coral. I used it with the Regals. Doesn't make the house stink and all life in there seems to love it.

[GaryP]

My temperature got a little high this weekend (86) because of having the windows open and high humidity, no chiller. As a result I had an outbreak of ick. I account this to stress and reinforces what others have said here. What is funny is that I had heard that ick does not do well at highher temps.

Until I get a chiller, I have 3 liter ice jugs in the frezer for occasions when this happens again. I also shut off my MH's. So far I have lost 2 fish, including my huge female oscellaris and a pseudochromis. I'm also feeding with garlic xtreme.

Gary

[miken]

"What is funny is that I had heard that ick does not do well at higher temps."

Higher temps actually just speed up the life-cycle so they can be hit with medication if their free swimming stage. (This doesn't help much in a reef tank, with no meds). I had a small regal that was covered with ick after I bought it, when the parasites left the body the poor animal was covered with little holes. I fought it with Garlic, Cleaner Shrimp, and a Cleaner Wrasse. That combo cleared it up.

MIKE

[Instar]

So, its just a coincidence then that mine didn't get ick holes or die from the stuff when I raised the temp a little? Or when the weather sends a surprise and alters my temp? Its a known fact that a temperature dip will cause an outbreak of ick when a tang is moved. Especially from a dealer tank to a home tank or even in the home reef. Its not the rise that gets them, its that drop during the night. Then again, they are messed up when they are purchased. You should watch them dump, er I mean acclimate them at the LFS. Its no wonder they are prone to ick. And then they get a poor diet nearly starved to death. Acclimation? Its a drop from 4 feet into the bottom of a trash can and then a rough netting and flip slam into their bare tank. Then they net them out for you and by the time they are acclimated far too quickly and only half way back from 1.017 water at the LFS to your reef at somewhere around 1.025, they are all messed up. If you don't believe me, measure the specific gravity all during one of your acclimation processes and keep acclimating slowly until the acclimation water of your bagged new fish is equal to your reef tank. If you follow someones instructions for a one hour acclimation, you will have trouble. Well, I don't have cleaner fish or shrimp or neon gobies and I have 6 tangs (regal, yellow, purple), 3 different kinds in 2 different tanks and don't have ick. Perhaps ick parasites in all stages can do great at higher stable temps, its just that the fish do better than the parasite, providing they are fed. From what I have been reading and seeing, a lot of people don't feed their fish much. I have seen a LOT of malnutrition in MAAST members tanks. In regard to tropical seas and temps - they don't go down to 70 something very often. The water in the Florida keys does, but, these fish aren't from there. And next: there are also many differences in the "air" in peoples homes. Some use aerosols, others light smokey fires in the fire place, some go about painting and stipping things from finger nails to furniture and still others smoke inside. Air quality matters, just like diet does. It affects the tank and fish. Perhaps I should just say "ok" and not respond here, but, if this spares one person that serious of an ick problem cause they evaluated all of it, then its worth it.

[miken]

You are right in that the best way to prevent ICK is to provide a clean and balanced (stress free) environment. I was just saying that a higher temp speeds up the parasites life cycle. Temperature doesnt "cause" the ICK, it stresses the fish which them succumb to ICK.

I don't agree that all LFS practice the way you describe, many are good and some are bad. I have visited distributors, whlesalers, internet dealers, etc. and there are good and bad.

Also, great advice on the air pollutants.

Thanks,
MIKE

[Tim Marvin]

My tanks have hit 86 and sometimes 88 with no ill effects, and I have tangs as well as numerous corals. There could be another problem lurking.

[Jimnorris]

I have six tangs in my tank and they all have ICH! Good thing is most of the time they do not show it. I do run my tank alittle warmer than most and that gives me a temp swing of about 6 to 7 degrees each day. If I have a breakout the Kent garlic x is a great product or Gino's pizza if I am out of Kent. I believe diet is the major key while my tangs do well. I feed them just about everything and anything I can get. And they eat it.
If your fish get ich then to rid it IMO you must have a stable tank, good diet and garlic. Again this is if they are in a reef tank. Copper is way to much of a poison IMO to treat an ich problem. Lowering the SG and raising the temp IMO is better. But a good home and food has been a winning combo for me.
Jim

[alexwolf]

i notices today that my 135 was at 76, i know when the halides kick on it will go up to 82-83, no signs of ick. one yelow tang did get lateral line recently. However, he is eating very well.

[JeffCo]

I was having big temp flux's as well between 78 - 84 when the halides came on. I added an additional heater to keep the temp at 82 - 84. That way it's not such a big temp change and my tangs have never had ich.

[alexwolf]

i added a heater to kep it at 80, and it just climbed higher lol, to 88

[JeffCo]

I have my heater and my 3 canopy fans hooked up to a ranco dual temp controller. So the heater kicks on when the tank is below 82 and the fans kick on when it is above 82. They work really well. They have them pretty cheap at www.diyreef.com.

[alexwolf]

i started turning my halides on at 3 and going until 10. While the halides are on the fans are on, the fans and the lights are hooked into a power strip pluged into the timer.

[GaryP]

Just for the record my temp got up to almost 87. It wasn't just the tangs that got sick. As a matter of fact my regal is doing OK. I lost a pseudochromis and 2 clowns. I do think the temp. was the major source of stress that caused the outbreak. It was to much of a conincidence that the outbreak occured 1-2 days after the temp. spike. I have been feeding garlic and got the temp. back under control. I saved some fish with a FW dip. Only 1 fish that was dipped subsequently died. On top of it all, I have a lazy cleaner shrimp.

Gary

[Instar]

that the outbreak occured 1-2 days after the temp. spike

Gary, you said it all right there. After means it took a dive and was back to normal.

Alex, you gotta solve the swing to keep these reef animals successfully. Its gotta be reasonalby stable.

There is a lot to controlling temperature. One small part of what I do for a living is monitor temperature and changes.
This all goes beyond the scope of this posting.
Perhaps a seminar series on this (Disease prevention) would be something people could benefit from?