Downgrade

[alexwolf]

I am thinking of downgrading my lighting. I think its too bright for my softies. Would going form 2x400w XM20,000k's to 2 250w make a difference? Or, do I go to 2 175w and add 2 more 72" vhos?

[shellback]

Did youn move your softies lower in the tank first. I thought your lighting was fine.

[alexwolf]

even at the bottom, mushrooms wont open, they shrivel up. They will only open when the VHO's are on. i moved the colt down there and hes been opening a bit more but still not a lot. the lime green leather seems to like it better. My ricordeas wont extend either.

[wkopplin]

Alex, If you want to sell your 400's, I'll buy them from you.

[shellback]

Did you make any over hangs with your rock look for shadows in your tank there should be some. But if not you may look at moving them to your seahorse tank with PC's when you get it set up and leave the big tank to SPS.

[alexwolf]

the thing is, noone chew me out here, but im not too crazy for a tank of SPS. I much prefer the move and the look of softies. Also the color. Im a fan of leathers, colts, hammers, frogspawn, etc. Am LOVES bubble coral. And most of these are not so gigh light, and there is only so much bottom of the tank.

[TexasState]

Are you asking about 20K or 10K for 175W & 250W?
I'm with you Alex, I like animated corals like frogspawn, hammer more then I do with SPS. LPS normally don't like bright light and will get burned when there's too much light. If you move down to 175Watts 10K, you'll still be able to keep some SPS that have been kept for several generations under lower light. If you like 20K bulb, then stay with 250W or 400W.

[shellback]

Having reefs doesn't mean SPS's its what you like and are happy with this for your enjoyment not Joe Smo's. There are formulas for light dispersment it may be possible for you to get away from MH's if you are not keeping SPS's this may be cheeper on the light bill also.

[alexwolf]

Vinh, I LOVE the look of my 20,000k's now. I have 2 72" actinic also. So, if i ditch the 400w and go to 250w, should i add additonal VHO, like 10k actinic? My hammer got this weird film over it, almost like a bedsheet, its white with little spots.

[DeletedAccount]

250s would be fine if you choose to go that route. 400 MH are WONDERFUL for clams and SPS, but you are correct, leathers and other softies do not appear to appreciate it! If you can ge them into a slightly shaded area they may be OK.

[DeletedAccount]

I am with you, Alex. I am not an SPS fan. My tank with the leathers and other softies is by far my favorite!

[alexwolf]

what lighting are you using on that one?

[TexasState]

That's your personal preference, if you have the room, then just keep different kind of bulbs and switch them on and off as your taste bud changes. That's what I do. I hope your hammer is not turning to mush and die. Hammer and frogspawn are sensitive if your water is not good. I can't say much more w/out a picture.

[alexwolf]

i think he a goner Vinh, unfortunately. i dont really think thats in my budget either, I need to see what i can get for the 400's and figure out where to go from there. I just paid for a wedding and a honeymoon :shock: do you think 2 250w 20k's and 2 72" vho's will be too much still for softies?

[GaryP]

I'm keeping leathers, shrooms, zoo's, and LPS under VHO's only. You've seen my 75 gal. Alex. I reserve the MH's in my 125 for clams and SPS. My Sarcophyton and Open Brain are outgrowing the 75. If there is any room left, the elephant ear and Rhodactis shrooms will take over the rest.

Gary

[DeletedAccount]

I have PC's on my softie tank.

[Instar]

I have a fantastic frag of a red colt and one of a kenya tree. The kenya tree was right in the middle of the tank, under multiple 400 watt 20,000K MH before it was fragged. And the red colt was under MH as well. I also have a devils hand, beautiful light gold color that gets direct sunlight every day and loves it! Those 20K XM's have a lower PAR than a 10K ushio. Alex, you expect miracles here. Going from a 175 calcium to 380 in 2 weeks will kill even you. If I had your tank I would stop trying to fix things right now. You only have 2 MH bulbs and they are a good distance from the top. You can cut your photoperiod down on the MH if you think that is the problem. I don't think it is. You will have to sell the clams if you get rid of the halides. After seeing an 18 gallon tank with a 400 watt MH, 20,000K, I know you don't have too much light. Softies will grow under all kinds of light and people think pc's are cheaper, but, it will end up costing you double the dollars for that kind of lighting. I am keeping a fantastic SPS reef under pc's, but, does that mean everyone should switch to pc's just because they are working for me? Absoultely not! Same is true of the MH. Changing your lights will not fix the problems you have, I promise you that.

[matt]

I agree with Larry that its unlikely you have too much light. Just take a nice vacation to a coral reef and I think you'll agree that tropical sunlight is just a bit more powerful than anything we have over our tanks. Besides, you can always get bulbs with lower PAR, just check some of Sanjay Joshi's bulb intensity tests and find ones that do poorly. I don;t know how the XMs compare with other high temp bulbs, like radiums. I think blueline makes a 20k with really low PAR. You can also ditch the vhos for a while and see what that does. Besides, I'd bet if you changed lights, in a short while you'll miss the 400s and want 'em back.

This might be a first, a reefkeeper looking for less light!

[brewercm]

That's funny that this came up. I just took down my 250 watt iwasaki and 2 110watt actinics and replaced them with 2 400 watt radiums. I love the look much better of the Radiums and the corals in the tank really seem to like them better. Haven't noticed any difference in my softies (polyps, mushrooms, etc.).

[Instar]

Radiums are expensive. Their life span/acceptable spectum is half that of XM's and iwasaki's. I would never take true actinics off if it were mine. The corals response is to the true spectum range, not the brand name. Since radiums are bluer, the response will be better, but that is not universal to all zoozanthellae colors/shades. Then there is a real difference between brands color temps. If the iwasakis were 10K or 6.5K, and then you go to radium any K, there is a lot of difference in the amount of blue light.

[brewercm]

Yeah, I'm still planing on finishing out the hood and putting the actinics back in. I just needed to make a quick fix for the moment to get the others off and for sale. What I'm planning on is the 2 400w Radiums, possibly change out to XMs (if they will run on these ballasts, Hamilton says they will), and the 2 110 watt actinics. I need to finish out making my canopy a little taller and just bought the wood tonight. Figuring 12 inch tall canopy and droping the actinics down about 4 inches lower.

[Instar]

Alex, perhaps you didn't see my other post in response to your problems. Here is a more specific one.
When I tested your water, it came in at less than 1/2 (one half) of what normal sea water is for dKh.
You can not change more than 0.4, in a short period of time, from normal, without drastic life threatening effects.
You were 4.0 or more away from normal.
Then a ton of buffer and calcium went in there, changing the low values more than 0.4 in a short time, back toward normal.
So, bascially you have changed dKh 10 times the acceptable tolerance of the animals you are trying to keep.
Recovery time: From the time you stop adding so much calcium and buffer, achieving a stabile tank, you can set
a clock. It will take from 60 days to 6 months for your softies to recover from all that shock, if they live.
The recovery time does NOT start until the changes STOP. There is absolutely NOTHING at all you can do to speed this up. There is no instant recovery. If your tank is not stabile, new inhabitants will also perish.
And, since the changes were outside the limits by a lot, there will be death in your tank for a while. No lights will
help, nothing will fix this except time and stability. Once the tank becomes stabile, you can expect newer animals to
start growing before the current inhabitants that went thru all that.

[GaryP]

Alex, one other thing. Did you ever put your lights on timers? I think that may be a big part of your problem. Like Larry said, your photoperiod is to long.

Gary

[alexwolf]

Well, thats not the only reason. I have a heat problem with them as well. I also would have to make modifications to my hood to keep the ones i have now anyways. I am not getting rid of MH completely, just going from 2 400 to 2 250

[alexwolf]

Well, thats not the only reason. I have a heat problem with them as well. I also would have to make modifications to my hood to keep the ones i have now anyways. I am not getting rid of MH completely, just going from 2 400 to 2 250

[GaryP]

IMO the heat problem is partially related to your photoperiod and lack of timers. How many hours a day are your MH on every day Alex?

[Jimnorris]

There is some good advise going on here IMO. I will agree with Larry if your water parameters are off take it very slowly in bringing then back under control.
Now on lighting IMO you cannot have enough! (TXU and I are very tight!) The best looking softie tanks I have ever seen are using VHOs and PCs.
I think with your MH set up you can still be happy? I would as stated run them for a shorter period of time and use your VHOs more.
As for heat my tank seems to like it? The last few weeks I have been running without a chiller. (going to relocate it). My water temp. at its highest is 87 and 79 at its lowest. I may not rehook up the chiller! I also think the XM 20,000k bulbs have more par than radiums.
Jim

[alexwolf]

LOL me too. i have not figured anything out yet, too much advice and info :shock:

[Sherri]

Alex - you've seen my tank - 440 VHO - and my softies are really growing and happy - If I set SPS or my maxima clam up high on the LR - they do very well also. My maxima has not attempted to move at all since getting him I think in April or May..? I too love the movement in my tank - yet I also love the "natural sunlight" effect that MH's give off. Guess I'll stick with my VHO's on the 100 gal & start fluttering the ole eyelashes at the hubby on another aquarium for the bedroom maybe and do MH's. hehe :skeezy: Yeah, right... Would love to setup a clam tank...

[alexwolf]

HAHA Poor Gilbert....... :-D

[alexwolf]

Hey, what about maybe going all VHO? Or alternatively, what about 175w MH's? Whats wrong with those?

[alexwolf]

72" are 140w right?

[Sherri]

In talking to you the other night Alex...you stated about maybe having too long of a photoperiod. Timers are one of the best investments we've made. Good idea to run your VHO's LONGER than your MH's...but there is nothing like the natural sunlight effect IMO. Wish I had some. Just get some timers, shorten your photoperiod, and use more VHO...then make a decision. Slow Down a bit and make some adjustments and watch for results. :D

On the HAHA Poor Gilbert....it's really HAHA Poor Sherri...but won't stop me from working on it...Would be nice.

[alexwolf]

yeah ive been running the MH's about 7 hrs a day now/../

[JeffCo]

175's are good for softies. I used to run 2 175 10k ushios's and 2 VHO super actnics and my softies loved it, gave the nice "ripple" effect, and had great flouresence, and heat was not a issue.

[alexwolf]

what size tank though?

[alexwolf]

im going there tonite, what brand? and where are they?

[JeffCo]

It was in my 75 gallon

[alexwolf]

ah see i have a 135

[oceancube]

hey alex me rudy, well i think you need to really figure out what you really want to keep as far as sps and lps goes, concentrate on that first, if you decide to go more sps than softies, i would have at least 2 250watters in there, if you wanna go mainly softies,shrooms,zoo's etc. you can go with 2 175 watters along with a couple pc or vho's, to be honest with you, i noticed alot more growth with my pc setup than the metalhalides, only thing is, my tank looks way cooler with the ripple effect of the sun, just focus on what you wanna keep and go from there, you really dont need all that wattage to keep corals happy, as long as water perimeters are good, and occasional feedings as well! HTH brotha! oh HAPPY NEW YEAR'S DAY TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY! don't stress it bro!

[alexwolf]

ok, i decided once and for all. 2 250w MH's with my 2 actinics. If it still gets too hot, then im going to cut into my canopy. I enjoy the flicker of thge MH;s, and hopefully it wont be too much for my softies

[matt]

Oh hell, now I'll have to go to Walmart again; another low quality experience. Couldn't find any fans while I was there last week; they said it's a "seasonal item." I really need to get a couple of small clip on fans, one for the sump, one to aim at the ultra hot velocity T3 that's running my skimmer. Would Target have those? It's a much nicer shopping experience.

[Henry]

Last time I was at target I had a hard time finding any there. They had some fans with auto temp control at target a while back.

[alexwolf]

i got that digital timer, and I cant get it to work