Red Flatworms

[beareef19]

I just found some red flatworms on one of my frags. Took it out and did freshwater dip, my question is, is there anything that will get rid of them naturally or do I need to get some kind of chemical? I did see some on rock which I cannot remove from tank.

[TexasState]

There are various fishes(damsels, fairy wrasse) and slug that might eat them. But it can be a hit or miss situation. I have a brand new bottle of Salifert's "Flatworm Exit" if you would like to buy it.

[captexas]

Those are planaria. They are nasty little guys that will continue to reproduce and will eventually cover the glass , sandbed, and live rock. You need to remove as many as you can, either scraping them off or siphoning them out. People have tried many natural options to get rid of them with very little luck as they tend to reproduce faster than any fish can keep up by eating them.

I had them when I had my 58g tank and dosed Quinsulex to kill them. I only used a portion of the recommended dosage and it wiped them out. The most important thing about using this or any other chemical (Flat Worm Exit) to get rid of them is that you must do water changes and run carbon (canister filter is best) to take the toxins out of the water. When the planarians die, they release a toxin into the water column that can affect some inverts.

[DeletedAccount]

I got some from a coral and within 2 days of putting in my Yellow Coris Wrasse they were gone. The wrasse has since been moved from the tank and have not seen any return at all.

[matt]

Misti, you got lucky. I had a plague which I completely eradicated using Flatworm Exit. That stuff works well, just make sure you follow the directions. It's MUCH better to get rid of them before they reach large numbers in your tank. As Chris said, when they die, they release a toxin which can really ruin your tank's day. One other thing, is I would treat twice; once as directed on the bottle, then a week later I'd do a double dose, and if you've siphoned out almost all of them, you can leave the flatworm exit in your tank for a day or so before running carbon to remove it.

There's a huge thread on this on reefcentral with lots of useful info.

[DeletedAccount]

I guess I was lucky. I recieved my Coris two days after I bought the coral. I did a freshwater dip and that got rid of most. Saw a few hanging out still after that. Then I watched the Coris gobble a few. Then they were gone.....

[Jenn]

Do any of you happen to have a pic of a red flatworm. I have a long earthworm-like creature that I can see under my sandbed every now and then.

[DeletedAccount]

Nope. That is not a flatworm. Mihn posted a picture last week of some that was on one of his corals.

[beareef19]

No pics but they are thin flat membrane looking creatures, like a fine thin skin. Is there any benifit from these worms? What are the ill effects that they can have on or do to your tank? Jenn yours might be a bristle worm.

[Instar]

Jenn, these flat worms we're talking about are about this long >=

If they release a toxin when they die and that is what you worry about, then when flat worm exit kills them, what happens to the toxin? Either way, if toxins from them is what you worry about, you still got it.

[captexas]

I'm not sure what their lifespan is so I don't know if you would observe the toxins prior to treatment or not. If you did, it would probably be such a low level it wouldn't affect much. By treating the tank and killing them all, you cause the release of toxins by all of them, therefore the level is very high. The things that really get affected by such toxins are your more sensitive animals. I lost a few things, starfish and cucumbers. People have lost a lot more though in treating their tanks.

The planaria are usually introduced to a tank with the addition of new corals and/or live rock. I got mine from some live rock I purchased locally. After that, I started treating all new live rock before introducing it to my tank!

[matt]

If they release a toxin when they die and that is what you worry about, then when flat worm exit kills them, what happens to the toxin?

Larry, this is why the flatworm exit instructions say to siphon out as many flatworms as possible before treating, and then to continue siphoning out dead ones as the stuff is working. It's very labor intensive if you have a plague. I siphoned out 10 gallons of water through a 1/4" glass pipette getting hundreds of flatworms out before I used the flatworm exit. Between that, and lots of carbon (I used 2 lbs for 24 hours, then changed it and used a new 2 lbs) I experienced no side effects, at least that I noticed. Supposedly the stuff is pretty specific to flatworms; the guy that owns Salifert, Habib, is a pretty advanced marine biochemist, so I've heard.

[Instar]

I can't even imagine trying to do that in my tank. I could never even get close to all the places in there with a little siphon. Quite a few of those things hide during the daytime, for the most part. I like the yellow coris solution the best, although that wouldn't work too well with a lion fish in there.

[GaryP]

I did a treatment on my tanks a while back my tanks with flatworm exit. Its important to follow the instructions. Run aa large amount of carbon about 30 min. after trating, or as soon as you see the worms are all dead, skim heavily, then do about a 20% water change the next day. I had no problems at all with any fish or inverts. Better to treat sooner than later when the worms get to large numbers. The flatworm exit works great.

Like Larry said the toxicity of the body juice from the worms is what you need to worry about. The red flat worms themselves are not really a problem. They are detritivores. Its mainly a problem of aesthetics for the reefkeeper. Just remember that there are probably at least 4 times as many worms in your tank then what you can see and siphon out.

Gary

[GaryP]

P.S. I'm going to go back and retreat my tanks just to make sure I got them all.

Gary

[GaryP]

I don't know if any LFS carries FlatWorm Exit. I ordered mine from Premium Aquatics.

Gary

[OrionN]

Do any of you happen to have a pic of a red flatworm. I have a long earthworm-like creature that I can see under my sandbed every now and then.
Here is a picture that have red flat worms in it. The red specks on the sand are red flatworms. Don't put them in your tank and get them out as soon as you see them.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/images/minh/dscn3864.jpg
Minh

[DeletedAccount]

Mihn, What are those fleshy colored flatworms called?

[bprewit]

Personal experience only so take it for what its worth, I had tons of the little red bastards at one time and still have some in the tank but natural cycle keeps them in check. Mine got pretty bad when i had a large fish load so lots of DOC's and detrius. I thought about trying the chemicals to kill em off but heard too many bad stories about people losing inverts from toxins due to the mass die off. So I pretty much left them alone and sure enough their population got smaller and smaller. I still see them now and again cruising along the glass and substrate but at one time they were so thick they almost completly covered the substrate! Three years now my tank has been running with water changes only every 6 months or so and never add anything other than buffer and calcium. The more I try and mess with things the worse the tank gets so I have left it to find its own balance with minimum intervention by me. I have LPS, SPS, and softies and the SPS have spread onto the rear glass of my tank so im guessing its pretty healthy!

[captexas]

Yes when the chemicals first came out there were a lot of bad experiences with treating the flat worms. But, over time people have learned from previous situations and it is not that big a deal anymore.

As far as them going through a natural cycle, they of course will only survive as long as they have a food source and an environment that they like. It is pretty much impossible to do away with things that help them survive, but you can reduce those things so they only support a small number of the flat worms. When I had them and did some reading, some people suggested not feeding anything for a few days. The belief was that they benefited from the excess nutrients from over-feeding and that the lack of light would hurt them. This of course didn't help my situation and I got tired of scraping them off the front glass every day so I could see my tank. I decided to use Quinsulex which a few people had tried with some success (Flatworm Exit was not out yet). I had some losses but I think that was mostly due to not doing the water changes and not being prepared to run carbon at the time.

It's really up to you. You can wait and see if they run a cycle as many things do in saltwater/reef tanks and hope that their numbers stay small in the long run or try a treatment and get rid of them completely. Just be careful in the future about where you get corals and live rock from so you don't reintroduce them to your tank.

[OrionN]

Mihn, What are those fleshy colored flatworms called?
Misti,
I am not sure of the species but they are of the same Genus. The red ones are free living and do not bother corals. The pail color one pictured here are parasites of solf corals and LPS.
http://www.maast.org/albums/Minh-Nguyen/Flat_worms.jpg

[Sherri]

Very interesting pics Minh...So you should know if you have these guys...they seem to be pretty noticable. On the red fleshy ones...can you actually see them moving?

[Instar]

Sherri, they are most active at night and you can easily see them moving in the early morning, just as the sun comes up or lights come on.

I have gone the natural method since they don't hurt anything and are hardly noticable anyway. They seem to eventually dissappear. Things are doing well, so I am not adding toxins to the tank anymore. Less intervention. I gotta agree with that. The less I add of things other than a few trace elements, the better it seems to work out.

[OrionN]

Very interesting pics Minh...So you should know if you have these guys...they seem to be pretty noticable. On the red fleshy ones...can you actually see them moving?
The pale color ones are dificult to see, unless you have lots of them and/or looking for them specifically. I got about 100 of them on my Alveopora but did not see it untill I look at the picture above. I was taking a close up picture of my coral. Looking at the picture, I find out that I got flat worm.
Minh

[beareef19]

I saw mine on one of my frags, like I said at the begining. They were flat and some of them were kind of floating their foot, almost looked like it was plating coraline algae, until one of them was startled be something and caused it to move. Very hard to see because they blend in with the reds and purples of the coraline.

[Sherri]

Well...took a good look and don't see anything...but now I know what to look for. They are usually brought in on new LR or corals then?

[GaryP]

I think mine came in on either coral or LS. Most likely LS.

Gary