Couple of questions

[manny]

I'm having a cyano problem that just won't go away. Have had it ever since I moved my tank. Well I've been doin everything that I think I should. Cleaned prefilters really good, changed out cartridge in my powerfilter, and have phosgaurd in the media container also. Have been doing 5 gallon water changes every three days and the crap still won't go away. I bought a brand new ro/di filter and am using that but was thinking it might be my water that is the problem. Is there anybody that could test my water so I can see if this is may be the problem?

Next question,
i used my python vacuum on my quarantine tank which I was using copper on a few months ago and was wondering if i could use it on my regular tank now? Is it possible that the copper could have been absorbed in it and leach out into my tank?

Sorry this is so long and thanx in advance for any help and for reading this whole thing too!!!

[manny]

oh yeah, i've read that chemi clean works but only temporaroly so i don't really wanna use that..

[MikeP]

What kind of flow do you have? Just the return from the emperor filter and the Bakpak?

I'd add another powerhead and really churn up the water for a few days. Also keep the lights off for a bit - maybe 48 hours. Your fish and corals should be fine without light for a day or two.

Also exactly how old are your bulbs? Cyano sometimes breaks out as bulbs age and the spectrum shifts.

[GaryP]

I'm with Mike. Additional flow will certainly help. It sounds like you are doing everything for the water quality issues. Cyano likes stagnant areas of the tank.

I don't think Tygon will absorb copper but if you want to be sure, first run some hot tap water through the hose for 15 min. then take a sample and test it for copper.

[GaryP]

Running some vinegar through your python might also be useful. Just make sure to flush it really well before using it for SW.

Gary

[Triggerman]

have you had anything die recently fish, snails, etc. that can also be a sign of major cyano outbreaks. also how recent did you start doing water changes with the new ro/di unit??? check-out that with a tds meter to make sure it's working properly. you also mentioned phosguard, how old or how long have you left it in the filter??? majority of companies selling phosphate removing products say their products do not leach phosphates back into the tank once removed, but it can and will happen. the best way to run it is only in short intervals, leave it in for 2 days then remove and don't reuse it. then do it again with a fresh supply.

ray

[manny]

i forgot to mention my powerheads. In my 30 i have two powersweep 226's that are supposed to move 190 gph each. got em at full power so i think i have enough water movement. one in the back right and one in the front left. my lights are only a few months old, had em since august. i've changed having em on from 12 hrs to only 8 for the past couple of days but i'll try turning em off for 48 hrs straight.

i'll try rinsing my vacuum out like you've recommended and test it garyp if you don't think copper has been absorbed.

Back to the cyano problem. When I moved my tank I had a fish hide in one of my rocks and he umm never came out. You think this could be the problem? I'd been having problems with ammonia for a few weeks and had to keep doing water changes. It's been three and a half weeks since this happened though. Could it still be causing the cyano? The phosgaurd I've had in there for about a week now. I was thinkin it might need to be removed but never took it out since the company says phosphates wouldn't leach out into the tank. But i'll take your advice ray and take it out. Anybody have a tds meter that doesn't mind testing my water?

[GaryP]

Your phosphates are probably being released as your fish decays. Are you power heads getting down to the substrate where your cyano is growing? Often times we are more concerned about circulation through our LR and corals and forget about getting it down on the substrate.

Gary

[manny]

no, they're aimed directly across the top of my water. i have a smaller powerhead that i think i can aim towards my sand. how long for the decaying fish to not be a factor?

[GaryP]

Manny

That depends if you have any scavengers in your tank to clean it up. Hermits or a brittle star? If you are having an ammonia spike you might have lost some snails or other critters too.

Gary

[manny]

As far as I know I haven't lost anything else. In my tank here's what I have:
2 scarlet hermits, 6 astrea, 6 nassarius, 5 cerith, 2 mex. turbos, 1 brittle, 1 serpent star, 1 fighting conch.

[manny]

Last time i counted, they were all there. Except for the ceriths, hard to find em all since they bury themselves in the sand.

[manny]

I've been thinkin about getting some more snails but not sure what kind i should get. Tim Marvin suggests nassarius for sand stirring to keep away cyano in one post but in another someone recommends nerites to eat it. I noticed you were maybe wanting to do an order for some snails, I might be interested. What kind of snails should I get?? Or should I get more hermits??

[GaryP]

Cerith snails (Cerithium strercusmuscarum) and dwarf mexican hermit crabs ( Clibanarius digueti) will eat cyano.

[manny]

They apparently hatch alot of eggs as i've learned from my other post also.

[whatsareef]

And then watch the hermits find new homes---- Cerith houses--- :)

[Triggerman]

well it seems like you found the problem. since it's been 3 weeks the fish pretty much has decayed and turned into some smelly mush loaded with organics. the hermits probably helped alittle, but you're doing the right thing with the water changes, if the tank is well established i would do larger water changes not just 5 gal. and run heavy carbon to help alleviate the problem. don't be concerned about added chemi-clean since you found the problem, one dose will choke it out and not harm anything. if not then your cyano. might last quite awhile since it came from a fish that decayed totally in the tank, but it will eventually go away.

ray

[GaryP]

Good point Ray. Besides the phosphates the other main nutrient that you would need to control is the Total Organic Carbon (TOC). Carbon will take that out.

Gary

[GaryP]

Jason,

I look at it this way. Which is worse, the cyano trashing your tank or losing some snails? When you are in fire fighting mode with a tank that is having problems you don't ask where the firewater is coming from. A dead premium acro will pay for a lot of snails. Besides, the dwarf hermits aren't nearly as bad as the larger red or blue legs.

Gary

[manny]

My scarlets are pretty mellow. Are they as good of scavengers though?

[GaryP]

I think most hermits are primarily scavengers/herbivores. IMO they will only go after things like snails if there isn't a lot of other things to eat.

Gary

[Tim Marvin]

Use the chemi-clean. It oxidizes the cyano and makes it dissapear. Cyanobacteria is always in the tank and you will never "rid" a tank of it. We just want to keep from seeing it. Hermits can eat it, but they will eat anything else they want also. Circulation, new lights, skimming, and good water quality will help to keep it invisable.

[manny]

I didn't really want to use chemi-clean but I think I'll try it for a quick temp fix since this cyano is really ugly.

[whatsareef]

Gary.. I agree... just FYI

[Tim Marvin]

Don't worry, it is harmless. I keep a bottle or two around for when I have out breaks. Don't let anyone fool you, we have all had out breaks it is not something you are doing wrong. I notice a little patch maybe once a year, and hit it with a little chemi-clean and it is gone.

[whatsareef]

I also use the chemi-clean the same as Tim mentioned....

[manny]

I'll give it a dose and keep you guys updated. Thanks for all the great advice

[Tim Marvin]

The object is to get it when it is still just a speck.

[manny]

Does anybody know where I can get the best price on chemi-clean here in SA?
Also, does anyone know of any lfs's that will test for copper or have a tds meter?

[manny]

I had talked to Mark at CB Pets and had asked him what not to use while dosing with chemiclean cause of something I read here on maast and here it is

One thing of note with any oxidizer. If you are dosing Tech-I, you must discontinue its use prior to dosing an oxidizer. My Kent Marine representatives (our new one just happens to be an old friend I have known for 4-5 years) were in the store today and we had a long discussion about this. The oxidizer “un-chelates” the Iodine allowing it to become toxic. There is even a warning on the Tech-I bottle about this.
I would assume this would hold true with Seachem’s Reef Iodide product as well, but have no hard data to support that assumption.


Charley
You were right about the iodine Mark.
I'll be using the chemiclean today and we'll see if it works or not.

[manny]

I'm supplementing B-Ionic. There shouldn't be a problem while I'm using that though, right?

[GaryP]

Most iodine supplements are sodium iodide. I think what's happening is that the oxidizer in Chemi Clean is oxidizing the iodide back to iodine. I can't see how the iodine would be a problem because Lugol's solution containes iodine. I think rather that the oxidizer is being used up by the iodide rather than working on the cyano. All waters have a certain "demand" that soak up oxidizers. In municipal water treatment they add enough chlorine to compensdate for the demand plus enough to give the desired residual.

Amount added - demand = residual

The iodide is probably increasing the demand and thus reducing the resulting residual. Of course you don't want a really high iodine concentration as it toxic. I suppose it depends on the amount you are starting off with. Some corals and most algaes soak up iodide fairly quickly. I actually soak my Xenia frags in a fairly concentrated water with Lugol's when I mount them.

Gary

[Instar]

After 24 hours phosgard is reported to leach phosphate and aluminum into the tank. Use it and get it outta there. Also make sure if you use a second charge of it, that its really washed well.

[robertpower3]

Also, does anyone know of any lfs's that will test for copper or have a tds meter?
You can use a red sea copper test I believe they are like $15 as for the tds I'm sure someone would let you borrow there's if you ask

[manny]

I'll be removing my phosgaurd from now on after a couple of days. Thanks for the heads up Instar. Only thing is, I wonder why on the label it says that phosphates and silicates won't be leaked out. You'd think they'd say to replace it as often as possible so they could sell more of their product. :?

RobertStar, I was wondering if any lfs's could test for copper since I don't really wanna spend any money on a test kit I probly would use very rarely. As for the TDS meter, I'm still lookin around but I may not need to test my rodi water after all.

The chemi-clean worked like a miracle!!! I still have some very small patches here and there. It's been 48 hrs and I'm gonna do a water change later today.

Should I dose one more time like the directions say or wait a few days??

[manny]

Well, cyano was gone for awhile but now its back again :evil: dangit. and i have to go home for the weekend so i won't be able to do water changes or keep an eye on it. I have no clue what to try next. Bought some nassarius snails and ceriths to keep my sand sifted but it doesn't seem to be working. With 20 nassarius, 18 cerith, 12 astreas, 2 scarlets, 1 large brittle star, and 1 large serpent star I figured everything would stay clean but nope. Any ideas of what could be causing the cyano prob that i can't friggin get rid of?