agaronite 50lbs

[shellback]

Possibly have a supplier in SA for agaronite in a 50lbs bag. I will be going by Thurs. to get a sample for testing in which 1salt will be running. If so this will be a less cost than any other supplier I have for and local,no shipping. :-D www.frankmin.com this is the maker.

[longhorn_20m]

Awesome, keep us informed.

[shellback]

For sure this not silica. Being from where they raise critters, there are a couple of ways to get calcium in to livestock one is crushed bone meal the other is calcium carbonate. This comes in two forms calcite and aragonite. The product we will be testing is aragonite it will be a 325 fine mesh which will put it somewhere in the salt to sugar sizing of granuales. What we will be testing is solubility of calcium and ph. this material is 97%-99% pure no chemical wash.The draw back is that you will have to jumpstart it with a bag or two of live sand.

[shellback]

Ok picked up 1 bag 50lbs will start testing tonight

Bag contents as follows

Calcium 37% by volume
Calcium Carbonate 99%
Silica <1%

Granuale sizing is fine to sugar grain,by the look and feel when I opened bag. :) this product has a white color when dry.

[longhorn_20m]

What color is it when filled with water? Bright white?

If you have a picture, would be koo, because I'm interested in some.

[brewercm]

Any new word on this (location to buy, price, testing outcome) since I'm in the market for some sand, although it looks like I've found some. I'd still be interested in any new info.

[shellback]

Ok as of right now the color is an off white, not bright white or light tan. I am waiting to see what the levels will do after loading with rock and starter sand which I am trying to find, untill it compacts there is clouding when moving things around. The place to get it is Locke Hill Feed call ahead so that it can be brought in talk to Bill. This is a pretty pure product low,low silica, used in feed. Price is $5.50 for 50 lbs bag texture ranges from fine to sugar size. No shipping or tax because it is a feed material.Phn#(210) 691-2351 off of Heubner Between Fredricksberg and Babcock at 4927 Golden Quail. I have 1 50lb bag that Im not using if someone has some live sand, I can use as a jump start 20 -30 pounds or so.

[estone]

Well what wa the outcome of this experiment?

[eleyan]

I'm intersted too. I need about 300-350 lbs for my new setup

[Ram_Puppy]

bump

[dow]

I just looked at the history, and his last post was in May from Northern Iraq. Maybe 1salt would know. FWIW, I set up a 10 gal a couple of years ago with limestone fines as substrate. It's still chugging along in spite of me. I've had a hermit crab in there the whole time, and he's still going too.

[Ram_Puppy]

Guys, I am experimenting with a fuge right now, since shellback is off serving our country, I will pick up where his work left off, or attempt to, with practical testing. I am going to see if I can pick up a bag of this stuff this week. I have a 20 gallon high allready up and running, but I don't like the coarse arragonite in it, so I will drain it, remove the arragonite, and use this stuff instead and see what happens.

(I am tempted to mix the carib sea coars arragonite i have now with the new stuff, but I am worried that would invalidate the test? what do you think?)

If I mix, then it will become bio-active based on what's allready in there, if I don't, I guess I'll take a scoop out of my tank and order some garf grunge as well.

So far it's just the arragonite, some unidentified gulf coast algae, some botracalida (sp?) red bubble algae, and the sand, and a patch of cyano in there... so I am not risking much! :)

I'll keep you up to date.

[Sunhutch]

I went there last week in attempt to get this stuff. It has to ordered and was supposed to be there friday but the sales rep that gets it was sick that week. They said they would call when it comes in.

[Ram_Puppy]

OI... guess I won't be going by today. ARe you setting up a tank Hutch? are you going to need all 50 lbs or can I buy some off ya? :)

[Sunhutch]

Im setting up a 29g and a fuge. I think I will use most if not all. If you want I can call them and tell them to add a bag.

[Sunhutch]

Well I just called them and it sounds iffy at best. They now say there having a difficult time finding a salesman who has it. I guess its just wait and see.

[Ram_Puppy]

it's a conspiracy I tell you. :)

Tell ya what... I have a fairly good feeling about this product, and I am worried that it won't be available for long if they are having a problem getting ahold of the sales person... so... put me down for 9 bags of it (if it is still in the 5 to 6 dollar range) That is 450 lbs, and if it ends up not working out (cant imagine from the contents list above) then I will give it to my bro-in law for his cattle. I have a friend setting up a 180 and I will be doing a 115 in the near future... if this stuff fails to work, then all we have lost is 25 bucks or so apiece...

hope it works, I have two other large tanks I want to put up.

so... 9 bags for me if your still up to adding some to the order.

[Andrew]

I have used this stuff, though not in a reef tank (yet), that's next. It's fairly coarse, made primarily of crushed oyster shells, along with powder-fine calcium sand, and a very small amount of silica. Great for burrowing critters like worms, certain gobies, jawfish, pistol shrimp, etc. It has a dirty white appearance when light reflects off it. If rinsed well, it's basically a crushed coral substitute.

If you just dump it in (no rinsing), your tank will be cloudy for a week or more, and then again whenever even slightly disturbed. If you end up using this stuff for a reef tank, I would highly recommend rinsing very well for the reason stated above, and mixing with some fine grain aragonite for better reflectivity (if desired).

HTH
Andrew

[Sunhutch]

Cool, thanks for the advice Andrew. Now if I could just get my hands on some!

I spoke with them again on thursday and still no luck. I gave them the name of the company that Shellback had the link to, hopefully that will help.

Ram-I will call them tommorow or monday if they are closed to add more bags. Maybe that will give them more incentive to track down this stuff for us.

[Ram_Puppy]

hope so... Andrew you sure this is nothing more than crushed coral? from Shellbacks description, it may not be the same stuff, he said it was sugar fine. This is used as cattle calcium suppliment, Considering cattle have to go through five stomachs just to digest grass, I would think they would have a hard time breaking down crushed shells.

not to mention the place this stuff is manufactured is far from the coast, where I would expect any shell crushing type production to take place... I think there may be some product confusion, as my impression, and from what I read from shellback, was that this was either artificially condensated, or mined aragonite, much like southdown...

not really doubting you, just your description, while similar (color) is inconcistent with shellbacks. :| (not to mention he flat out calls it aragonite.)

[Sunhutch]

Well, hopefully we'll find out. They said it would be here friday. I'll keep you posted.

[GaryP]

Is there a possibility it might be crushed limestone. From looking at their website it seems like that is their main business. Some of the local limestone quarries sell a similar product in bulk that they call manufactured sand. It would not be good for aquariums. It has a lot of clay mixed in it. This material sounds like it has been refined to some degree to remove clay and silica.

Limestone is basically fossilized aragonite but a lot of other stuff gets mixed in during deposition a few million years ago. Clay comes from deposited silt & mud.

Gary

[Ram_Puppy]

Gary, I would expect there is a very GOOD chance this is crushed limestone, and a VERY good chance it is refined as well. I keep going back to the contents listed that Shellback put up.

Calcium 37% by volume
Calcium Carbonate 99%
Silica <1%


as I look at those numbers, 37% calcium, 99% calcium carbonate, I wonder inow f it means 37% of contents are calcium and 99% of that calcium is calcium carbonate? That leaves 63% of the bags contents unacounted for. it is certainly questionable but that is why I intend to test it first... heavily washed.

I am thinking, I will probably 'pan' it, pour some into a bucket, fill the bucket up, pour the water off, throw the contents into another bucket, repeat.

I have a 20 gallon refugium I am setting up, currently it will not be attatched to anything, so it's a perfect setup for an experiment. I figure before it gets hooked up to a tank, I will try some xenia in it, a couple small crabs, maybe a fuge friendly goby, some urchins, and for sure a ton of snails, nerite, nassarius, eventually sea bunnies if all goes well. if I can keep all that alive in there, plus chaeto, the turtle grass I got from port A, and the red bubble algae, then I figure all is well with it. If I set it up this weekend, and all goes well until december when I set the fuge up for an actual tank, then were good to go as far as I am concerned. I may even do another experiment and put unwashed in a 10 gallon.

What are you planning on doing Sunhutch? or are you just going to go for broke and start a full fledged tank with it?

[Sunhutch]

I want to see it first, then I'll decide.

[Sunhutch]

Well this is getting ridiculous. :roll: I just called and I was told the supplier was out. They said it would be here next Friday FOR SURE. I will believe it when I see it. I will call again next Friday and see what happens.

[Sunhutch]

Called last week. Still no dice. I'll keep trying.

[GaryP]

After giving this some more thought I'm pretty sure this is refined crushed limestone. It could also be manufactured CaCO3. In either case, based on the analysis give, I don't see why it shouldn't work well as a substrate.

Ram Puppy, you misunderstood the analysis. Calcium Carbonate contains 37% calcium by weight. The remaining 63% is carbonate. You have to work out the molecular weight of CaCO3 to figure it out. Ca=35.5, CO3=60, CaCO3=95.5, (35.5/95.5) X 100% = 37%

Where are all the chemists when you need one? OK, where are all the folks that didn't sleep through HS chemistry when you need them? Its all Misti's fault. Just kidding Misti!

Gary

[Ram_Puppy]

Gary, you keep edumacating me. Just dond korekt awl my aufull spelink ok? :)

lol

Looks like this stuff is tough to get in, however, conversely it seems to he very much mroe realistic a goal than southdown... and I am much happier now that Gary has made me realize it will be purer than I thought...

commonsense steve.. who want's to feed their cattle something they can dig up on their ranch? :)

[GaryP]

Why don't you work on putting a group order together and getting a pallet of Southdown, or the equivalent shipped in? Anthony Calfo talks about ordering large volumes of aragonite in his book. He actually got a dump truck delivered to his coral farm in PA. He gives the names and contact numbers of his vendors in his book. I loaned my copy to Larry or I would give you the info. Check around and see if someone else has a copy. I know that Tim has put some orders together in the past. You might check with him.

Gary

[Ram_Puppy]

Well, we have tried that several times, just a month or two we came pretty close, one of the members here actually got home depot to agree to getting the pallet, and then a contractor got involved, and we haven't hear a peep out of the order since... getting southdown here is nigh in possible, especially with the fact that southdown went out of business and got bought by someone else, castle, I think... who knows. I don't need the sand for a while, and since I added what is it, 20 some odd bags to this initial order, I won't back out, i'm bringing most of the 'punch' to it to make these guys want to get it in... if I backed out I think it would be only 2 bags and they wouldn't work so hard. ;)

[Sunhutch]

I wouldnt worry about backing out on this Ram. They have taken so long to get this stuff and I really dont get any sense of urgency from them. Its been around a month since I asked them to order it and I am not sure if they will ever get it.

[DeletedAccount]

No one ever sleeps through my Chemistry class, Gary. They goof off and play.. but do not sleep. Right now they are "flowing". Some rappy thing about Chemisr

[DeletedAccount]

No one ever sleeps through my Chemistry class, Gary. They goof off and play.. but do not sleep. Right now they are "flowing". Some rappy thing about Chemistry and awesome teacher Ms. T

[alexwolf]

i talked to the owner, he said the supplier is getting some in next week, and hes going up there on thurs. his question is how many bags to bring back?

[Ram_Puppy]

I am still in.. I will go ahead and round up from 9 to an even 10.

[Ram_Puppy]

any more info on this? or has everyone backed down now that the southdown has come to town? :)

[Sunhutch]

They had 2 bags come in a couple weeks ago. I picked up one to check it out. It required LOTS of rinsing but looks promising. The descritption of it is pretty much like what shellback had described. It does seem to have a darker color than southdown. This bag came from a quary in Fredricksburg. Other than rinsing it I havent done much with it, havent set it up in a tank or done any testing with it. I havent had much time lately so I dont know if I am going to do much else with it for now.

Ram, if you like I can give them a call to see if they can get more. They should still have at least one more bag, I was going to get it but never got around to it. Your more than welcome to it if you like. If you want to see it first you can come by and check it out. PM me if you want to come by.

[Ram_Puppy]

I think I will swing by on thursday and grab the bag that is left, I'll call to see if it is there still. I want to test it... I have a new 40 gallon eclipse I scored from a friend for 40$, I am gong to throw this stuff in there with some established live sand, and maybe some miracle mud and transfer my 'refugium in waiting' to it and see what happens. Maybe even photo-document the whole shebang for posterity.