sand sifting star placed 1st in Gymnastics

[whatsareef]

first time for me to every see a sandsifting star do this.....

[alexwolf]

ha ha wish mine diud something intresting sometime!!!

[Sherri]

Mine hasn't done anything like that....interesting...

Sherri

[georgetownreefer]

my knobby that i had did that all the time

misty

it is really funny to watch them try to flip over when the fall off of something

[matt]

I believe that's it's predatory stance, waiting for something tasty to crawl underneath, then whammo!

Not sure, though. Someone else with experience with one of these should know...

[JimD]

Thats exactly correct matt, thats the posture I was referring to in the brittle star thread.
I have a question tho, if what I see in that picture is a deep sand bed, and the DSB needs a substantial amount of micro fauna to function correctly and the DSB is being used in conjunction with live rock for filtration, then why have a creature whos a known carnivor roaming around in the dsb decimating the essential life? Sand sifting stars are bad for a DSB. And that one definately looks hungry. Theres a reason why that star is in the ambush position. Most, if not all knobby stars are a no no in a reef also.
Just my 14.1/2 cents, this is by no means a flame job, I just want be sure my fellow reefers are well informed and aware of these little facts.
Jim

[GaryP]

OK, let me get off topic abit here. If stars are bad as sand sifters, then what would everyone recommend? From what I have read about maintaining DSB's, some sort of critter is necessary to stir the sand up. This seems to be a topic that you get a different answer from everyone you ask. I've heard stars, hermits, cucumbers, conchs, pistol shrimp, wrasses, and blennies mentioned. Is anyone aware of any authoritative sources on this topic?

Gary

[Ed]

Don't know an authoritative source, but FWIW, IMO a fighting conch or two would help stir your sand a bit and should not decimate it like a sand sifting star can. The fighting conch eats algae and detritus, usually a good thing. Hope this helps.

-Ed

[GaryP]

Thanks Ed, I been giving a lot of thought to what sort of sifters to add to my tanks. I have been leaning towards fighting conches based on what I have turned up in my research.

Gary

[matt]

Really the best place I know of for DSB info is Ron Shimek's many articles, his forum on reefcentral, and his books. In short, though, what you want is animals crusing through the sand to eat bacteria, detritus, etc. NOT animals cruising through the sand looking for other animals to eat. JimD, i think you are correct in saying that this animal is bad for a DSB; in fact, Shimek would say that sifting stars are among the worst animals for DSB. Sand sifting gobies and large hermits are not far behind. The fighting conch is a good animal for a DSB provided you have enough area to keep it fed.

[GaryP]

OK, anyone have any experience with or knowledge about cucumbers?

[JimD]

Some cukes are ok for sand bed cleaning, the problem with cukes is, if they OD in your tank, they can emit toxins that can cause problems with your chemistry,,,,, not my first choice, IMO, the very best animals for the purpose of keeping the sandbed "stirred" would be, in this order,,, nassarious snails (an excellent choice, maybe one per gallon) along with fighting conches, 1 per every two square feet of open sand, the problem with conches is if you have hermits, they seem to love conch meat, and as many mini white brittle stars as you can get. Some sandbed creatures will naturally come in from live rock. Most hermits wont actively seek out sandbed fauna unless theres a shortage of food. Sifting gobies are definately out! What do ya think theyre sifting for?
Aint this hobby cool!
Jim

[GaryP]

I guess I wasn't very accurate in my terminology concerning the gobies. I guess I am more interested in the sleeper type gobies like a banded/dragon goby. I sure appreciate the info, thanks to all that have responded.
I found Ron Shimek's website and now I just need a few weeks to read all of his articles on DSB's.

Gary

[whatsareef]

Well heck.... guess it goes with the hobby... one person says this the other says that.... Hmmm maybe I will do some more research before I pull him out of my tank. keep the info flowing

[Tim Marvin]

Nassarius snails, do a great job and penetrate an inch or two. Conch stay on the surface and don't stir much sand, but do keep the top 1/4 inch clean. Cucumbers process a lot of sand but also stay on the surface. I use all three. I have only had one cucumber die and it was a pretty large one. I removed it from the tank the next day and had no problem. Sea apples are toxic from what I have read, but I have never kept one for more than a couple weeks.

[whatsareef]

Well I have Nassarius snails currently, but wanted something a little more aggressive at stiring up the sand. I think the main reason my star was doing acrobats was because I put him into a new enviroment. I know that green stars do it to catch prey, just never seen a sand sifter do it. so should he stay or go????

[brewercm]

I had Nassarius before and unfortunately now my hermits are all sporting new Nassarius shells. I'm using 3 fighting conchs now on my 75 and they appear to be doing great. One of them burrows down so far that I can't see any part of his shell until he pops back up, cool little critters. I'm thinking of really getting rid of those destructive hermits but they help keep the junk cleaned up.

[Tim Marvin]

Soon they will sport a new conch shell home. At least three of them will.

[brewercm]

So far they haven't bothered the conchs, of course they are about 4 times the size of the litte hermits. I've had them in there with the first conch for a couple of months before putting more in. If they even act like they want to try that they will be hermits in a different bowl with a nice swirl.

[matt]

whatsareef;

If you're trying to keep a live sand bed, meaning 4" or so of fine grade sand with a thriving fauna, you should definitely get rid of your sifting star. That star is sifting the sand to catch and eat the animals that make your sand bed work. But, you could post a question on the "ask Dr. Ron" forum on reefcentral if you want an answer from a leading marine invertebrate zoologist.