SCWD

[JimD]

Just finished plumbing one of these to my tank, I gotta tellya, the results are awesome to say the least. A real nice powefull surge from side to side, I was able to remove four Maxi 1200's and my temp dropped almost five degrees. Highly recommended.
Jim

[captexas]

Jim - I'm putting 2 of these on my 75. How much flow are you pumping into it?

[Jimnorris]

Jim.
Your are so right! Just hooked up mine on my tank in the garage. I am using a Mag 18 and the flow is awesome. My left to right switch is about 6 seconds. I will put this in my main tank tonight! Then I plan on hooking up one more using longer inlets for lower flows in the tank. Then I will be able to remove my 8 maxijet 1200s that are on 2 Red Sea wave makers. Which will reduce heat in my tank also! These are to COOL!
Jim

[JimD]

cap,
Im using a Mag-12, I only have about three foot of head loss so its just about right, anymore and Id probably go with a Mag-18. Two on a 75 would definately do the job, if you can get two rwturns on the surface, and two about half way down at opposing corners, that would be ideal.
Jim

[alexwolf]

What are they????

[JimD]

Switching Current Water Director. aka, surge device. Search Google for detailed info.

[alexwolf]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=46312&item=2342977497

Similar to this?

[JimD]

Why is this in the "for sale/trade" forum?

[JimD]

Alex,
No, Sea Swirls are a completely different animal.

[TexasState]

Hi JD,
A Mag12 on your 40G breeder ? How's your sand bad doing?

[JimD]

uhh, Vinh, I have a 65g. Remember?

[Texreefer]

hey guys id like to get more info in these because i want to so something like that on my 115 gal cube

[Texreefer]

joshua , thanks good info . i didn't know what size tank the would function on ,, i was planning to go with seaswirls to begin with

[JimD]

Jim Norris is fixin to put two SCWD's on his 240, lets see what he has to say. The flow is determined by pump output volume versus gravity, if you have high output volume and minimum head loss, theres no reason why the SCWD's wouldnt work on any size tank. SCWD's and Seaswirls, apples and oranges. The concept for each is totally different, surge vs. wave motion. Of course, this is JMFO!
Have a nice evening.

[captexas]

Mike -
As Josh mentioned, the flow going into them is more than what comes out. Also, the amount of flow going in affects the switching rate of the unit. The higher the flow rate, the faster the switching occurs. I think they finally did some research on them and results had been posted Reef Central and I think on here in a previous thread. It showed the input versus output and corresponding switching rates.

Chris

[captexas]

JimD is right that they will work in any size tank. Not to sure if the JMFO was really necessary though!

It is really just a matter of getting the best setup for what you want. Whether that comes from Sea Swirls, SQWD's, DIY surge devices, or a combination of them. All have advantages and disadvantages.

[JimD]

Just My Flakey Opinion??? Supwiddat? lol

[captexas]

The most you can get out of a 3/4in. Sea Swirl is 850gph. Of course SQWD's are rated for higher, but I'd be afraid of blowing the thing up! If I remember correctly, you only get roughly 80% output of the flow going into the SQWD.

Spend $40 on a SQWD compared to $150 for a 3/4in Sea Swirl, but you will spend more $ on a pump for the SQWD to get the same output.

JIMD - "Flakey" ? That's ok then. Thought you were talking about Fruity, or Frosty, or Floating, or something bad like that! :-D

[Tim Marvin]

Or you could buy 2-3 SQWD's for the same price and splice them together off your return and get the full output from the pump.....Right?

[captexas]

Tim -
That would work if you have a larger pump. No matter how many you put on the same return, SQWD's reduce the output. I'm not sure if it is because of the size of the intake or the mechanism that alternates back and forth, but there is a noticable reduction in output. Also, if you do go with a larger pump to increase the input to get the desired output, you will significantly reduce the switching rate. Thus reducing the desired wave affect.

Just my thoughts and there is nothing wrong with them. I'm putting two of them on my 75g along with 2 3/4in. sea swirls. They were supposed to come out with a 3/4in. or larger SQWD, but it's been over a year and still nothing.

[Tim Marvin]

Right, but if it cuts the output to 80% then you run 2, each one can run 80% right? So wouldn't that be a total of 160% that would be more than the 100% the pump is putting out. There has to be a point to were there is little resistance against the pump. For instance if your pump has 2 inch outputs like mine do, then I split the 2 inch pipe to 2- 1.5 inch pipes that makes less resistance than pushing it through the original 2 inch pipe and now I have flow from 2 different directions. I could also split the dolphin pump into 6- 1/2 inch pipes and get flow from 6 directions without causing back pressure to the pump....I don't know how the SQWD works but it doesn't make sense to me if you add two SQWD's you will still only get 80% of the pumps rating.....???

[captexas]

TIM - please check your math. Let's say you have a 1000gph pump. You can't get 1600pgh out of a 1000gph pump by adding another SQWD to it. Taking the same pump and splitting the return to two units means they are each only getting 500gph and that would be with 0 head loss. Now I'm not sure on the 80% loss, but we'll keep using that figure for now. Take that 80% loss of flow and you still end up with only 800gph output from the 2 units.

Now if you take that same 1000gph pump and put it on a Sea Swirl, or two as one could not handle that flow rate (3/4in is rated up to 850gph), you would get 1000gph coming out of it or near that as I am sure there is a minute amount of loss.

Again, each has it's own advantages/disadvantages. You have the initial cost of the Sea Swirl or SQWD, the cost of the required pump, the space the unit takes up on the tank, and more to think about. I think SQWDs are great for small tanks as they are cheap, take up very little space, and can be easily plumbed to be placed externally or internally.

[Jimnorris]

I just hooked up a unit to my tank using a Mag18 and it ROCKS! The flow is real good. I will be adding a second unit using a Mag 24. The Mag 18 sits on the floor under the tank. I run a hose from the Mag 18 to the tank which is the inlet (about six feet). Then for the outlets I have approx. 5 1/2 feet of hose on each side which reaches each corner of my tank. This is very simple (like me). I am now thinking about using four of these units and removing all my powerheads from inside my tank. The second unit I am planning on using the Mag 24 because I will be using longer outlets. I want to have this set go deeper into the tank about 4 inches from the bottom. Where as the unit now is about 4 inches from the top.
It is a sweet set up and the price is good too!
Jim
P.S. I will still use my two 3/4 SeaSwirls that are hooked up to a Mag 18 that is in my sump.

[brewercm]

Would one of these work alright on a Mag7 pump. I have this returning from my little sump and even have it throttled down a little. It's the largest I could fit under my stand but added a rubbermade container to give a little more volume.

[alexwolf]

Where can you buy these?

[Tim Marvin]

I don't need to check my math.....That is exactly my point. I know you can't get more than what the pump is rated at....Duh.
So no matter what size pump you use it will only put out 80%...? OK so it isn't restricted by the inner diameter. So do they come up with the 80% from a specific size pump? I'm just wondering, as I said I know nothing about the internal workings of the SQWD. Sea swirls have 2 right elbows on them that reduce flow a tiny bit. Aaaaah to heck with it I'll just stick to my 15 gallon surge devices.

[brewercm]

I know I saw one at Fintique on West Ave a few months ago. Don't remember the price though.

[::pete::]

This might help "home Page" (http://www.3iqventures.com/apd_frame.htm) although a little hard to read.

[alexwolf]

wow, $39.95 each, thats cheap! Do you run this as a return from your sump?

[JimD]

alex,
Yes you could, provided you have adiquate output at the return, I use mine on a closed loop.

[z28pwr]

They are neat little devices for their price but I sold mine since it was killing my MAG7 and replaced it with 3 Maxijet pumps.

Maybe on a MAG9 or greater they will run better but I was dissapointed with it on my MAG7 for my 150 tank. For a small tank then they would be fine with a MAG7.

[captexas]

TIM - lol, sorry, but your posts don't make sense. Anyways . . .

They will restrict flow from no matter what pump you put on there, no matter how much the output of that pump will be. The 80% I was using was a general number I saw from the manufacturer's research. The % of reduction depended on the output of the pump and they had a recommended maximum input to the SQWD. As they are just plastic, you could probably either damage the switching mechanism or even blow the thing up if you put too big of a pump on one.

Alex - you can get them online at several different places, prices range from about $36 to even $50 depending on where. I think Charley even had them at Austin Aquariums. I think some places even sell a mounting bracket to hang them on the back of a tank.

[Tim Marvin]

Ok Cap. I checked out the site. It doesn't mention 80% any place on the site that I saw. So now we are controlled only by the 1/2 inch internal diameter of the device. It only states the switching will be slower or fast depending on the pump size. It also says to use a pump from 50-1400 gph.
Which part of my post doesn't make sense? I'll explain it to you.

[captexas]

LOL, please do Tim, but don't just explain it to me, do so for everyone else that has read this thread. In one post you talk about making up for the loss of flow by simply adding a second SQWD to the same pump and somehow magically creating 160%. Then in the next post you act like I am stupid for questioning that and that you say it will of course not work that way. You say one thing one minute and then the opposite the next. I know we are not all super interlectuals like you are, but many of us are not your average bears either! :D

As far as the 80% thing goes, as I AND Josh have said numerous times already, it wasn't printed on their website, it was posted on another forum. Posting negative aspects about your own product would be kind of dumb. But, just for you, as I know you like to argue and not trust anyone not on your level, I will do my best to find that info about flow reduction and I will post it as soon I can.

Thanks and have a great night! :D

[captexas]

This was actually found by Vinh and he posted it on a thread here on MAAST that was starded by Josh in regards to SQWDs. JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS, 3iQ VENTURES, LLC. IS THE COMPANY THAT MAKES AND SELLS SQWDS!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was recently provided with some data as a result of flow testing that was performed by one of our distributors. Using powerheads of various gph ratings they were able to provide flow-in ratings, flow-out, switching speeds, and efficiencies. I have provided that information below for your review. You will note, the higher the volume, the more efficient the device. Again, this was an independent test. Results will vary as I pointed out above, depending on each individual application. I hope this helps. Let us know your thoughts.

Good Luck,

Paul Muscarella
3iQ Ventures LLC
310-535-7003

Flow into SCWD|SCWD Output|Efficiency|Switching Duration

150 gph 90 gph 60% 22 seconds

180 gph 120 gph 65% 16 seconds

240 gph 180 gph 75% 12 seconds

270 gph 210 gph 80% 10 seconds

330 gph 240 gph 80% 9 seconds

400 gph 360 gph 90% 7 seconds

600 gph 540 gph 90% 5 seconds

720 gph 660 gph 90% 4 seconds

[Tim Marvin]

Right, but if it cuts the output to 80% then you run 2, each one can run 80% right? So wouldn't that be a total of 160% that would be more than the 100% the pump is putting out. ?

I didn't say the pump was putting out more than 100% all I said was 2 SQWDs could handle more flow. I'm not trying to argue either..... Just wondering how the SQWD works? Sorry your so upset about this. I don't claim to be smarter than anyone, in fact I am always learning. There are a lot smarter people than I am on this board. I was hoping you could explain it better to me than the way I understand them. I just figured if you split the return line into two SQWDs the resistance would be low enough to get the full flow out of your pump. Like I stated before I have never used a SQWD just curious about them, and would like to understand them better.

[Tim Marvin]

Cap, thanks for the chart. It looks like the SQWD gets better %'s if you use a larger pump... Interesting.....So the device works more efficent with a pump that runs better than 400gph. Thanks for the info.

P.S. your definately not an average bear tonight. I feel more like I've been bit by a grizzly bear. Sorry for so many questions.

[captexas]

Hey Tim -
No problem. I can be a bear at times as well. The chart does help, I couldn't remember exactly what the numbers were. It does seem that larger pumps work more efficiently, the only down side is that it switches much faster. But I guess that can work out alright in larger tanks where the water pulses have some distance to travel.

[Tim Marvin]

I wonder what happens if you go over the 1600gph? Does the device break, leak, stop working, or it just can't put more water through it due to the diameter?

[captexas]

I just looked at the "Owner's Manual" for one of the SQWD's I have. It states not to exceed 1400gph and a maximum of 5psi. I'm not sure what would happen. Can you actually get 1600gph through 1/2in. diameter? If it was that much flow at the SQWD, I imagine it could possibly come apart. Definately better have some good hose clamps on it!

[Tim Marvin]

1400gph right..... I guess anything larger would be a waste. I suppose as long as it wasn't a pressure pump you'd be ok. I have no idea what the PSI would be on a mag 18 for instance. I suppose it would be just like putting a ball valve on and restricting the flow..

[Jimnorris]

I don't know but my Mag 18 that goes from my sump to a Sea swirl (about 6 feet) produces a real good flow! My Mag 18 that is attached to my SCWD is producing real good flow too!
Jim

[::pete::]

Before Captexas found the old post with specs I requested info from 3iQ and the response was:


Pete,

I looked at the thread, and as you are well aware, there are as many opinions as there are ways to use the SCWD. I have a single SCWD running on my 125 reef tank, which is powered by a Little Giant 4MDQX. I am splitting the output of the pump between by protein skimmer and my SCWD. The SCWD is running at about 650 gph, with a switching response every 11 seconds. I found that if I created more of a pressure affect using some custom outlet nozzles, I get a real strong pattern that reaches from one side of the tank to the other, and I am able to slow the switching speed down as well.

There are many ways to hook up the SCWD. We developed the first model to fit the most common tank sizes, 10 gallons up to 150 gallons. Many of our customers have plumbed several SCWD's to accommodate their larger aquariums.


I hope I helped with your question. Thanks for your interest in SCWD, and best of luck to you.

"Make Waves, Save Energy"

Sincerely,

Paul


Paul M. Muscarella
3iQ Ventures LLC
310-535-7003

[matt]

There's definitely a review/study on these in one of the online mags like advanced aquarist or something like that. I can't remember the numbers, but there was definite flow loss with the scwd; maybe a higher percentage as the pump size increased, something like that. Someone took the time to measure pump output with a flow meter, then measure the outputs of the scwd, etc, and write it up. As Josh said, the 1/2" tube size must slow things down with a big pump (actually, it would appear to be speeding up the water by pushing it through a smaller opening) due to increased friction.

This isn't to say the scwd doesn't do great things for flow in a tank. Total gph is less important than quality and randomness of flow, everyone says.

Matt

[whatsareef]

Okay I now don't like the SCWD, after 4 months of use on a Mag 9 the thing is broke!!!!!!! I noticed the other day that the water was not swtiching, so I took it off to inspect. Lo and behold I heard rattling (not a good sign) :o .. Worked nice when it was working, but I guess they cant stand up to the long haul.

[JimD]

Ya know, not to beat a dead horse but, in the manual it clearly states that you need some type of pre filter for optimum performance, Im not an advocate of foam filters in any type of aquarium, so, what I did was to adapt the input U tube assembly from an old Magnum 350 canister filter and installed it onto the input side of a Mag 18, the input of the U tube is not as much of a filter, rather a screen that wont allow larger prticles to pass thru the pump and into the scwd. This is something that should be considered for anyone wanting longevity out of their scwd. So far for me, Im still a believer in the scwd. SO THERE! lol

[Jimnorris]

OK yes I copied JimD---but it WORKS! I too took an old mag350 inlet for my close loop SCWD powered by a Mag18. I am happy with it!
Jim

[SaltyJim]

So, for those of you that are still running the SQWD and are happy with it, what type of outlet nozzles/adapters are you using to direct flow? Something to create a fan effect, or just straight nozzle outlets for a stream effect?

Jim

[Jimnorris]

SCWD also makes outlet tubes with a flare nossle that works good!
Jim

[fuzz]

For my SQWD, ran off a Mag18, I m using the SQWD return nozzles which are basically a u-tube with locline and a diffuser on the end. They spread the current out over a wide area.

-Greg