fish are dropping left and right...need help =(

[MaximaPower]

hello all...newbie here.
got some questions, and need some help. PLZ.

well I have a 75 gal with about 80lbs of LR, prizm skimmer, 2 power heads( a whisper and a zoomed), a fluval canister,tank was filled with around 70% RO water and 30% treated tap, and i have about 120lbs of crushed coral...I also have a 260w compact light.....the tank's been setup for more than 2 months now(switched from a 45gal), but my first fish which is a blue and yellow tail damsel has been with me for about 4 months now and is still strong...lately i've added more damsels(all died), i've added a bicolor and coral beauty last week (both died), i bought a maroon clown couple of days ago and it looks like it's bout to die...but my damsel, goby, and yellow tang are strong...i've had the damsel and goby for about 4 months each and the yellow tang for about 3wks...i had my water tested at a LFS and they said my water's pretty good...i dont understand why my fish are dropping like flies...most damsels dropped dead the past 3 months, and the more expensive angels died yesterday...i dont know what to do.

any help is appreciated.
I know it might be hard to understand what i wrote, i'm just really sleepy and frustrated about my tank

thanks

[DeletedAccount]

Sorry to hear of your losses!

Did the fish store give you the water readings or just say "pretty good".

[minimasterflash]

How about your tank parameters, Ni,Na,Am,Ph, Alk, Cal?

[witecap4u]

Yeah,

If they gave you the readings, that will help. Also, how long are the fish in the tank before they die(days, weeks....)?

[MaximaPower]

thanks for the replies.

i can't remember exactly what the readings were, but the guy at the LFS did give me readings.....i think the pH level was 8.4. the nitrate and nitrite, i can't remember, but the levels were low...i didn't know what should have been tested, i just asked to have my water tested, and that's the only 3 things they tested beside the specific gravity which was a lil hi, but they said it should be ok.
i just hope i don't wake up tomorrow with a dead maroon & gold clown :(

forgot to mention that i do 25% water change twice a month

[Richard]

Given that the tank has only been set up 8 weeks or so I would recommend you first test for ammonia and nitrite levels. Both of these should be zero, anything above zero and you should not be adding more fish to the tank.

I have had tanks fully cycle in 3-4 weeks and I have had tanks take up to 12 weeks to fully cycle. I really recommend you purchase a basic SW test kit (ph, ammonia, nitrite, alkalinity, nitrate) before buying more fish.

Richard
CB Pets

[MikeP]

Check salinity - My hydrometer used to read 1.025 - fine right? Well it was a standard glass one. I purchased an ATC refractometer and found out it was closer to 1.028-29!!! Fish can adapt to higher salinities over a long period of time but in the short term it can kill them within a day or two - they have to work much much harder to expel mineral salts from sea water at higher salinities - thus they reccomend lower specific gravity for fish only tanks.

That would be my guess - if you are near austin you can borrow my refractometer to be sure.

[Andrew]

just out of curiosity, which lfs did you buy those fish from?

andrew

[Isis]

You might also want to get a second opinion on those readings. You never know how old the store's test kits are, let alone some brands are natorious for giving bad readings.

Have you done a water change since all this has started? What are the fish doing right before they die? Breathing heavily? Not eating? Color change? Need more specifics.

Also, you are adding fish fairly fast for such a young tank. Be patient and give your tank time to adjust to each new addition by at least weeks, IMO. This is a hobby where patience is a virtue. Remember, every time you add a new fish you add more ammonia which creates a new "cycle" your tank must go through. If you haven't done a water change anytime recently, you might want to consider one of at least 10%.

[Tim Marvin]

How about starting at the beginning? What store did you buy them from? Petsmart? You could have been buying bad fish from the start and your tank is fine........ Are the fish dropping dead within a couple days after buying them? Rubbing on the rocks and substrate? Rapid gills movement? Your fish source could be a bad one. Ask the store to hold the fish for you a few days then come back for it. If it didn't last a couple days you probably will have found your source. Also don't fall for them saying "sorry we sold your fish by accident" this usually indicates they died and a cover-up is in the works.

[Isis]

Also, if your original fish that you started the tank with are outliving the newer additions, it may be they are immune to something they could have brought with them from the store and if the newer ones came from a different store where there was no disease exposure, this might be part of the problem.

Have you been quarantining your fish for at least 3 weeks before adding them? If you haven't, you should really think about investing in a 1-20 gallon bare-bottom tank. I would hate to think that this could have all been prevented...

[MaximaPower]

:cry:
well, the day after i posted this thread everything looked good again.
all fish looked healthy til today.
now the tang has cloudy eyes and rapid gill movement, damsel has rapid gill movement as well....clown was strong again, but now weak again....specific gravity is at 1.023.

fish were bought from different places including city pets, global fishnpets, tropical fish on antoine dr. city pets and global are good, but the other store is 'iffy". and i will never buy from them again.

i've never quarantined the new fish, never thought about either.

well thanks for ur input guys, i'll go to a petstore once they open to buy a test kit and to ask for another water test

[matt]

Sure sounds like you have some parasites. I second Tim's comment about your fish source. It's VERY difficult to buy healthy fish here in San Antonio. I'm pretty sure the only guy who quarantines is Ray (triggerman). There could be others that I don't know of. You could also check with Tim (Fins and Critters) for fish in the future, as he knows how to care for them.

But first, you should remove any fish that survive and leave your tank empty of fish for at least a month, longer is probably better, to ensure that the parasites have died. Then only buy quarantined fish from someone who has the knowledge and system to make sure they're healthy. In the meantime, consider doing a lot of reading and research about caring for marine fish in a reef tank. It will save you money and grief in the long run. One last suggestion, start rebuilding your fish population with tank raised fish only; they're much less likely to transmit parasites into your system.

Matt

[Richard]

Well I have to take issue with the conclusion that the problem is the evil LFS. Let see, here are the facts as I read them:

1.) Tank has been set up roughly 8 weeks.
2.) Fish additions in that time are:
1 - yellowtail damsel
unspecified # of other damsels
1 - bicolor angel
1 - coral beauty
1 - maroon clown
1 - unspecified goby
1 - yellow tang
For a total of at least 8 fish

3.) Tank parameters (ammonia, nitrite, etc.) are unknown.

Conclusion - It's the LFS's fault. HUH?

Also, it is erroneous to suggest that there is ANY source for fish that will absolutely guarantee that you will not introduce any type of parasite or disease to your system. Show me an LFS or online supplier who will not only give you your money back if the fish develops a disease but will also replace any other fish you might lose because of it and I will gladly retract this statement.
Please follow the advice of ISIS and any decent beginners saltwater book and setup an inexpensive quarantine tank. It will surely save you money and headaches.

I'm not trying to defend all LFS's - there are those who simply do not care. But let's be fair here.

Richard
CB Pets

[::pete::]

To add to Richard ... I stopped at a LFS as they were opening the bags and placing in the tanks (corals) and could see the parasites (worms) lurking on one specimen. So after they settle in its highly possible they made it to the other specimens also. You never know what it is you are getting as the LFS (or some) dont know either. Heck sometimes you get some good "hitchikers" too.

Pete

[Tim Marvin]

Good point Richard! Although the decent stores do everything they can to prevent disease, the stress of moving them can cause out breaks. I didn't add up the total on fish but that is enough fish for about 150-200 gallon tank IMO. The best thing to do at this point is read! Wait for a couple weeks at least before adding fish again, then only add one or two. You can help them a little by feeding a high quality flake soaked in garlic juice from HEB. I use the fresh crushed garlic in the jars and just pour off a little of the juice. Kent also makes a garlic extract. This seems to deter parasites. Also check compatability before adding fish, fighting will also cause undue stress. Well good luck and go slow.

[matt]

I wasn't trying to blame the "evil fish stores" on this particular situation, and it's definitely true that Maxima Power overstocked his tank without really having his environment together. But, I definitely stand by my characterization of San Antonio's popular fish stores routinely selling fish that transmit disease; I've seen it and, unfortunately, experienced it. Also, I agree that even with the best of care, parasites are difficult to control in a reef system.

Sorry if my post seemed a bit negative. I do feel strongly, though, that the current comercial industry of importing reef fish, many of which die in transit, sale, or shortly thereafter, should be improved, or better yet, replaced by widescale tank raised/reared fish. It's better for us as aquarists, better for the reef environments, and helps to put the emphasis in our hobby on husbandry. Look what's happened in a short time with the coral industry; there are so many coral propogation businesses that it's really quite easy to have a well stocked tank with only tank raised corals. I think a similar trend could and should happen with fishes.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.....
Matt

[Tim Marvin]

Matt, I have to agree with you on tank raising, but it is much harder to raise fish than corals. It isn't like you can break off a fin and grow a new one..... It isn't taking the wild specimens that is the problem, it is over harvesting. If the collectors in third world countries were getting monitored better by US wholesalers we would not have any problems. We have the majority of the aquarium trade in the US so we are the largest contributors to the problem. ORA farms has made some giant strides in the fish rearing arena though so we'll see what the future holds.

[Tim Marvin]

Anyone interested in taking on a venture in breeding a certain fish? I'm game, and have the equipment. All I would need is an aquaculturist interested in keeping up micro critters and algae cultures.