some questions

[Andrew]

please, a few questions/confirmations needed: :?
(don't feel like you have to answer all these, unless you really want to)

Kalkwasser is basically calcium hydroxide, correct? So I add carbonates (buffer) as well, after testing for both, to keep ph and Ca up.

Ca reactors compensate for deficiencies in both? or just calcium?

I was at a local petco a week (or more ago), and they had 6-8 clarkii clowns in the same tank - hammering each other (one died). I asked a clerk to come over and separate them by twos into several tanks: today they looked fine, several seemingly paired off, one pair possibly exibiting spawning behavior.

They (petco) use crushed coral (not live) an inch deep at the front of the tank that slopes to the back, to about 6-7 in. deep, and also use bleached corals as decorations. It seems to me that the clark clowns were trying to establish territories, though not enough space existed for all.

Would they (petco) be better off going with no substrate & coral decorations so fish can't establish territories? Or just separation, like I suggested? (I personally despise harvested-bleached corals)

Their tanks were set up fairly recently; with crushed coral that deep, will they have nitrate problems in the future?



concerning DSB's, how do they not accumulate nitrates en masse? (movement by sand sifters?, current, grain size? or all of these?)



thanks lots in advance,

Andrew

[OldSalty]

Andrew,
Kalk Wasser can be very dangerous if not used correctly, and most people use the dump and pray method. If you use a calcium reactor there is no need to use any other additives. It will provide all the calcium and buffering you need once it's dialed in properly. And the Good news is you can make one for less than a hunderd bucks that works really well. This includes the CO2 as well.

[robertpower3]

I wrk for Petco and the reason we keep that meny clowns together is because minimum orders for O.R.A. are 24 fish. We don't have enough room to seperate all the fish in pairs. Too much money. Yes removing decorations would help. But in a high voulme store you should not have to worry about the fish competing for space. they come and go. The crushed coral does not cause any nitrate problems in our systems and never has.

[TexasState]

A bunch of fishes fighting each other is less damaging then two fishes duking it out.

[Buster]

Andrew,

The theory behind a calcium reactor is to break down what was once living. So if you think about it, everything that is needed to build coral structure is broken done so that live corals can use it to make their own structure. Everything that a coral once used breaks down like calcium, magnesium, strontium and on and on, and there for becomes available for the living corals to use.

That is good that you saw the clownfish fighting and had them seperate them, or else who knows how many more would have died.

Nick

[matt]

About Kalkwasser; when used correctly, it does release both calcium and carbonate ions into the tank, but typically will not keep up with carbonate demands. The way KW really helps with carbonate hardness(alkalinity, really) is by neutralizing acids that would otherwise deplete the carbonate. So, it's really typical to use KW and a carbonate buffer (baking soda works fine) together in an aquarium. Many people find, though, that with high calcium demands, like a heavily populated sps tank, that KW alone cannot keep up with calcium demands either. This is where calcium reactors enter; they provide lots of calcium, lots of carbonate, and some CO2, which is important because dissolved CO2 provides a source for carbonate ions. The corals need both calcium ions and carbonate ions to grow; they form calcium carbonate.

I'm not sure about the $100 figure including CO2 equipment for building a calcium reactor. When I built mine, I bought a fairly inexpensive regulator, a used CO2 bottle, and a small eheim pump to run the thing. These costs alone were about $200. Then, you're looking at cast acrylic, usually some tube at about $2.50/inch (I guess you could use pvc, that would be alot cheaper) plus lots of fittings. How you'd get all this stuff for half the price I paid for just my CO2 set up and pump is beyond me.

Matt

[Bigreefer]

Randy Holmes-Farley from reef central said that that they are best used together. The calcium reactor will add extra c02 to your tank. This will keep your PH on the low range. Kalkwasser cures that problem. The reactor will dose trace elements such as strontium and magnesium.

[newtosa]

I agree with Matt on the carbonate topic: KW does not keep my alk high enough, even though it does ok on Ca (not great, but ok).

It's really hard to make blanket statements, but my experience was this: in my 75g tank (moderate fish load, high coral load from SPS / clams), KW did just fine for everything. The more fast-growing SPS I had, the more I could tell alk was suffering. In my 175, I still haven't figured everything out. I can tell you this: my "drip KW to makeup for all evaporation" strategy is not maintaining either Ca or alk. Don't get me wrong; I'm still going to drip KW, but now I'll need to supplement with dry additives or get a calcium carbonate reactor (I'm choosing the CaCO3 reactor).

Now for my one point of disagreement with Matt (he & I have disagreed before on this, and you should keep in mind that he has much more experience with building reactors than I do).... I did not buy cast acrylic; I used extruded acrylic (regular old acrylite). Your materials for the reactor should be $20 - $100 (depending on whether you want a cylinder or a box, and many other preferences). The you need a recirc pump, and a CO2 setup. As Matt indicated, the CO2 setup is around $150-200 for bottle, reg, needle valve, and solenoid (customaquatic.com has a good deal on this setup; that's where I got mine).

Dean

[newtosa]

Oh yeah - on the petco topic: one way to improve the conditions at stores like petco is vote with your feet and your wallet. Do I love how convenient it is to go there and pick up a pump, or dog leash, or pet food, or whatever? You bet. Does that make up for all the dead fish and (more importantly) corals I see in their tanks? Absolutely not.

I made the decision to pay a little more if need be, but stores that kill fish & corals don't get any of my money, for any of my pets.

Dean

[matt]

Hey Dean;

I doubt if I have way more experience building reactors than you, probably less! I've only built one, and am working on another two. I use cast acrylic because the teacher in the MACO course I took STRONGLY (putting it lightly) suggested it. It's actually not that much more expensive. Apparently, extruded acrylic has about 10% of the molecular weight of cast, and absorbs much more water in an aquarium use application. As it absorbs water, it loses strength. Cyro, one of the big acrylic manufacturers, also recommends using cast for any application in which the device built must hold water. Now, I've built 2 sumps out of extruded, and they both held water; one I used for about 6 months, and the other I'm still using after about a year. But, I think the telling point would be, can the device hold up for several years? Usually, the guys that have built stuff for sale which must hold up year after year without failing use cast.

And, extruded is not that much cheaper; I paid about $75 for the extruded 1/4" for a sump, and then about $105 for cast for a sump slightly larger. The extra $30 is cheap insurance to me.

Matt

[newtosa]

Matt - good info on cost. Next time I'm buying a sheet of acrylic, I'm gonna look into the price difference. I took the sales guys word for it and didn't ask the followup question ("How much is way more?") - never the best practice.

Andrew - I wanted to reinforce one thing: dripping limewater is a great practice, and it is nothing but beneficial to your reef. Whether you need to do anything else is based on your animals, size & evaporation of your tank, etc. Many, many people find KW dripping alone sufficient. And there are others of us who need to do other things to provide the best environment. Don't get scared off by the complexity; you won't know for sure what you need until you've tried dripping KW.

Dean

[newtosa]

Yes, pickling lime. I'm thinking of running a controlled experiment like Jim, though: one 150 tank just like mine (running lime drip), and another 150 just like mine (but running official Peter Wilkens Kalkwasser drip). First I need some angel investors to float the venture capital. Anyone game? Or maybe I'd better just get a 300 gallon and drip lime on one side and KW on the other. Then I'd have a much cooler tank, and my results could support any theory I wanted to believe in! He he.

Seriously, I don't know on the alk support. IMO, any impurities in the pickling lime should affect Ca addition and alk addition in the same ratio (esp. given recent articles by our teacher Randy on RC). Bottom line for me is I wanted both a CaCO3 reactor and a KW reactor online in my system, so I don't care that the KW drip is leaving alk just a little low. I'm still waiting on my 2nd dosing pump, so I can get everything set up (Minh's recent experience has helped me resist the temptation to do it faster by using a float switch).

Dean