Alright experts, I need a diagnosis, Please! [Water Cloudy]

[dconyers]

Cloudy Tank Pics (http://www.dotphoto.com/Go.asp?l=dconyers&P=&AID=800348&GID=156250&T=1)

The picture isn't great, but hopefully you can see that my tank is pretty darn cloudy (and has been this way for nearly 2 weeks)! I'm looking for a little help understanding why my tank is cloudy and what I should do to correct it. I'll give you the tank stats and hope someone can help me out!

42 Gallon hex w/60 lbs. base/live rock
No Mechanical Filtration
250 W MH running 4 hours per day
2x32W CF running 8 hours per day
Bak Pak 2R Skimmer w/BBX
Maxi-Jet 600 For Water Flow
Lots of Crabs and Snails from garf.org
1 Tomato Clown
1 Yellow-Headed Jawfish
4 Xenia Stalks

Results of Tests run today:
Ph 8.1
Alkalinity 4.0 meq/litre
Nitrate 30 ppm
Ammonia 0 ppm
Calcium 450 mg/litre
Specific Gravity - 1.0215

In addition to the cloudiness, I seem to have a constant 'film' on the top of my water. I have a powerjet that ripples the water and removes the film around that area, but the film is still quite prevalent on the suface of the water.

The only other thing I can think to share is that I have made a mistake in regards to the type of water I've used for water changes and top-offfs. I used to use water from H.E.B. and I KNOW it used to say it was R.O. water. The last time I purchased water, it now says is is 'Processed By Carbon Fitration and Ozonation'. Could this be contributing to the problem?

I've dosed the tank 3 times this week with Kent Pro-Clear Marine Clarifier, but this hasn't done anything at all to help. My skimmer has been picking up a tad of skimmate, but not much. I've done a fair amount of research, and the only thing I can conclude is that this might be a 'bacteria bloom', but, from what I can read, bacteria blooms don't last quite this long. I have considered dosing my tank with Poly-Ox, but I wanted to see what you guys suggested first. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[R.Allard]

How long has the tank been set up ???
sounds like you didnt wash your arragonite sand bed befor you put it in your tank..also if your going to use a clarifier your going to need to use a mechanical filter to get rid of the particles..
all a clarifier does is make the particles attach to each other so that
they are big enough to be taken out via a filter..
i use a power head with a small canister under it that i fill full of new
floss...
If the tank has been set up awhile, things to look for are new additions..
what have you changed in the last month...added uncured rock,sand,etc...
my suggestion would be to put a filter on it and do a 15% water change..
also are you useing a reclaim powder for the RO water.. if you add to much of that it will cloud your water...
hope i helped
R.

[dconyers]

This Link Should Work (www.dotphoto.com/Go.asp?l=dconyers&P=&AID=800348&GID=156250&T=1)

Tank was moved about 2.5 months ago. Sand has been in the tank for about 2 years and was washed initially and rewashed during the move ("rinsed" would be a better term).

Regarding "small canister under powerhead" - is this just an attachment that fits in the tank or are you talking about a big external canister filter? I've never seen an 'in the tank' canister that fits under a powerhead, but maybe I should go looking for one!

I was told by a LFS that the clarifier would make particles big enough that they would get snagged by the Protein Skimmer... I thought that sounded a little questionable, but they know more than me so I thought I'd give it a shot!

[Trae]

Does the water look like billows of clouds flowing around? I used to use tap water filtered with carbon and everytime I added water BOOM smokey tank. Also still have skum on the surface from a bottle of water from HEB.

Their is an article from a catalog from Foster& Smith that explained what looks like billows of smoke. They also have an education page at www.PetEducation.com.


Good luck,
Trae

[dconyers]

Yes, Trae, 'billows of smoke' is a perfect description. I was tempted to actually use that description, but thought it would sound too crazy, so I didn't. I actually turned off my powerhead for a couple of hours the other day just to see if the 'smoke' would settle - no luck.

I haven't had any luck finding that article, but I'll keep searching. How did you fix your 'smokey tank'?

[Tim Marvin]

This is more than likely a bacteria bloom. Do a water change evey week of ten percent, and the cycle will break. Mechanical filtration will help very litte in a bacterial bloom, stop doseing, and doing anything to the tank except for the water changes. Try running the halide for 6-8 hours per day and the other lights for 10-12 hours. Your tank should be running on full day night cycle anyway.

P.S. excessively hard water can cloud when being dosed by certain chemicals. You could also try takeing out the heavy metals, so poly filter could help there. I would try changing water first though as it is the least expensive route.

[Trae]

I fixed my problem like Tim said by changing the water. Still not the perfect source but Wal Mart here in Pleasanton has a Culligan water station that is RO (among other filtering techniques).

I no longer have the billows of smoke but do occasionally have the skum on the surface which I believe is from a 5 gallon jug from HEB I never took back.

With a new water source mine cleared in a few days.

Trae

[Trae]

I scanned the article. It is in two jpg's. They are quite large so just give them a few minutes.

Let me know if you have any problems accessing them.

http://www.ftpkey.com/v3glassworks/smoke1.jpg

http://www.ftpkey.com/v3glassworks/smoke2.jpg

Trae

[JimD]

uhh, hmmm, to me it doesnt look like a bacterial bloom, rather the results of an overly rambunctious >>yellow headed jawfish<<

[Sherri]

I learned my lesson on buying HEB water. Had probs until I changed to distilled water...will use till I get a RO/DI unit (soon!!!). I had a film on top of my water also until I bought another powerhead for more circulation...solved the film prob and the dead areas of no flow. Still fighting "red slime" that has bubbles trapped in it tho. :roll:

But that kind of cloudiness...Like Jim said...I'd watch my jawfish closely and see just how rowdy he does get! :-D

Sherri :D

[Tim Marvin]

Even with the jawfish it should settle out and not be cloudy all the time. I'm still putting my money on the bacteria.

[JimD]

If the author would tell us if the cloudy water occured soon after the introduction of the jawfish, that would substantiate my theory. If, however, the jaws been in the tank for a while, and the water problem is a recent occurance, then Id tend to go with some sort of chemistry or biological mishap. Either way, the use of an external filter such as a Magnum 350 with say a .05 micron filter and some good quality carbon, should relieve some of the cloudiness provided its being caused by suspended particles.
Jim

[dconyers]

JimD, Tim, Trae and Sherri,

Thanks a lot for all of your quality responses. Jim, I believe the 'cloudy water' coincides most closely with the water changes, but the jawfish was purchased recently as well (5/8/03), which explains why I'm pondering both options. I watched the jawfish closely last night for a few hours, and while he is quite active, I have trouble believing he could create that much cloudiness in the water (I could be wrong!).
I prepared water last night and will do a 15% water change tomorrow and we'll see how that helps. I have recently posted looking for an affordable canister filter, and I think I will repost to see if anyone has one available. I previously used a H.O.B, but I replaced it withy my new Bak-Pak 2R and no longer can use the HOB filter.

Thanks again for all your help - you guys are really great!

[JimD]

Sherri, do you have a picture of the "red slime with bubbles"? I may be able to help you.
dc, jaws can wreak havok in a tank with fine grade sand with no problem, even though youre not seeing it, chances are that hes rooting all the while the lights are on, I had a similar problem with a Clarkii clown, ended up removing him from my tank for that very reason. Anyway, if you have a fairly good lfs in your area, they might let you borrow or rent you a canister filter for a few days to see if the problem settles. As far as the water goes, if there is ANY question about the quality of the water, dont use it, go to the lfs or a friend and get some ro/di, if the cloudiness goes away, thru the process of elimination, youve solved your problem.
hth
Jim

[Sherri]

Jim..will take a pic of it & sent it to you. I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure it out. Thanks.

Sherri

[Tim Marvin]

Sherri, chemi-clean will wipe out the cyano-bacteria. (red slim with bubbles)

[Sherri]

I have some Tim & I've dosed the tank once...but forgot to turn skimmer off... :oops: Wasn't sure how soon I could try it again...Its' been about 3 weeks.

Sherri

[Sherri]

JimD...posted a pic in my picture gallery. Couldn't figure out how to post a pic here in this thread. Sorry...

Any idea?

Thanks

Sherri

[Tim Marvin]

You can dose again now. You need to remove any carbon and turn off the skimmer.

[Tim Marvin]

Sherri, I look at the pictures. That is definately Cyano. Remove carbon, turn off the skimmer and dose the chemi-clean. It will be gone tomorrow.

[JimD]

dc, sorry about raping your thread.
Sherri, I agree 100% with Tim, thats definately cyanobacteria, you can do as Tim prescribed and re-treat the tank, just be sure and follow the directions (20% water change) and see if that fixes the problem, If you notice that it reappears after a few days or weeks, let us know and we can dissect the issue in greater detail.
Jim

[Sherri]

Thanks Jim...just dosed with ChemiClean about an hour ago. How long do I keep my skimmer off by the way?

I'm sorry also DC....didn't mean to jump into your thread. Hope your cloudy prob is better. Pls keep us informed on it.

Thanks guys...

Sherri

[Tim Marvin]

Sherri, keep the skimmer off for a couple days then resume as usual.

[JimD]

Sherri,
Id probably keep the skimmer off untill I started to see some results, at least 24 hours. Good luck!
Jim