New Tank Setup - Salt Newb

[Work_Puppy]

Hi All,

I am a long time Freshwater aquarist (Dutch Garend Tanks and what not) and have finally decided to bite the bullet and do a reef system. I have done a lot of reading, but also seen lots of conflicting opinions, and want to run my proposed setup by you before I go out and spend the money.

Because of space, I am limited to an 85 Gallon Hex, I am building the hood and canopy for it myself.

First, I want to plan ahead to eventually keeping corals, the tank is intended to be a indo-pacific reef, the only vertebrates in the tank will be a P. Antennata and a P. Radiata, or maybe one of each, I have not yet decided on the mix, but am firmly settled that two lion fish will rule the roost.

I have done a lot of research and have a list of compatible invertebrates, Crabs, Snails, and other things the lions won't stick in their mouths.

I am planning on building a rock tower w/ underwater epoxy and fiji and tonga live rock, with overhangs and caves up the back panel of the tank. At the bottom the tower of rocks 'feet' will wrap out and around the tank, disspearing into the live sand bed as they come forward. The live sand bed will be at least 4 inches deep. (Actually, probably southdown sand w/ a live sand primer.)

I am planning on getting some coraline algae plugs from http://www.ipsf.com, along with some sea bunnies and a few other things.

So here are the questions: with what you have read above, do you think this tank will be in for a world of hurt, or a smashing success with the following:

Remora Pro HOT Skimmer (I don't have the resrouces to do a sump)
Eheim Pro 2 2029 Wet Dry w/ heat
If needed, i have a magnum 350 that can be used to polish the water

lighting - Coralife 30" 65watt quad tube power compacts (half actinic half 10,000K.) from www.hellolights.com

I am willing to add more power compacts if need be, and go metal halide if I absolutely have to, but I live in a San Antonio Apartment with a wester exposure and my airconditioner can barely keep up with the sun in August as it is now.

I plan on having a large clean up crew to cut down on physical waste, and though the eheim is not designed for it (from what I hear) I will have a coarse pad pre-filter in the first stage to keep the media clean, which I will clean every week or as needed.

So.. for a beginner, how are my plans?

[Tim Marvin]

Sounds good, but you will need more light. I am a halide guy myself but you could probably do it with less. Get coralline from the locals it looks like ipsf wants way to much for something that grows extremely fast. All you would need are a few good scrapings.

[Henry]

I second Tim, go for halides. Isn't this tank fairly deep?
Also I would forget the coralline plugs and purchase a couple of pieces of live rock with good coralline growth and place a powerhead right on the pieces to help spread the spores. Just me opinion.

Henry

[RedDragon]

dido what these guys said, at least VHO

[Work_Puppy]

I think the tank is 28 inches deep, I am calling and trying to confirm that right now.

If I have to go metal halide, what wattage do you reccomend (any brands or can I put something together on the cheap from lowes?)

What about adding another power compact wuad tube hood? since I am custom building this canopy, I can litterally slam this thing full of power compacts if I need.. though, I suppose at some point it will reach and surpass halides in temp..

I am really concerned about temp and operating costs... but I guess you do what you have to do to feed the need right?

So when I get it all together and the live rock is in, I just post here asking for some scrapings and San Antonians will rise to the call for me? That is pretty cool... (willing to drive to Austin.)

Any suggesitnos on local fish stores? I have seen a few good ones, but nothing that screams spectacular lately.

[Tim Marvin]

As far as I know VHO is not an option. The tank suface area is too small to place the VHO's. The bulbs are too long, unless they came out with a very short VHO. One 250 or 400w halide would do the trick and use the natural sunlight to do the dawn and dusk. I like the sunlight supply 250watt DE/HQI run on icecap ballast. Good light coverage, good quality, and good price.

[TexasState]

Instead of a Hex tank, have you though about getting a 54 gallons or 92 gallons corner Bowfront?

Lions fish are poisonous, so aquascape your tank first b4 you add them in. W/ a 85 HEx, you don't have much moving rooms. You can keep a lionfish in a reef tank if you want, but they're messy eater and might dirty up your system.

[Work_Puppy]

I am definately aware of the nature of a lionfish, both their poison and eating/waste habbits. I have kept large planted tanks with arrowanas in them, and they, while fresh water, have exacting water requirements to prevent gill curl. So over the years I have learned how to keep a tank clean with a messy inhabitant.

A Corner tank is not an option for the room it is going in, I have a very specific place and footprint that can be occupied, and the hex fits best.

I plan on aquascaping the tank, and if I have to get in to do anything where I might draw a strike from the lions, I will use an acrylic sheet between us, as well as a long thick glove up to my arm. I have no desire to sustain a strike! :)

Ok.. I am looking at MH fixtures now... anyone in san antonio have figures on cost to operate?

also looking at a quad fixture retro fit kit puts out 220 watts (Power compact) this in conjunction with a 250 watt metal halide wouold produce a total wattage of 5.5 watts per gallon... is that good enough? (I understand both MH and pwoer compacts the rule of thumb is 4 to 5 watts per gallon?)

[Chris]

Hey Work_Puppy, welcome to the group! ;)

Here's a helpful little Calculator (http://www.maast.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=PostWrap&file=index&he ight=1400&page=calc) to estimate your power consumption costs.

If you're planning to turn the tank into a reef setup, the MH's may be the best suggestion for your sized tank for the long run(they'll still be perfect when it's time to go reef without spending extra later on).


8)

[Work_Puppy]

what your saying is ditch the compact flourescents and go completely halide?

I thought I had to use flourescents to get the actinic color range? or do 20K bulbs have that band of light in them?

last night I actually resigned myself to metal haldie, and priced in the following to my budget.

HelloLights 4 X 55watt compact Flourescent fixture here. http://www.hellolights.com/4x55wretrofit.html

and the 250 Watt Metal Halide Kit

here

http://www.hellolights.com/25methalbalk.html

Hello Lights does not not neccessarily need to be the source of these systems, I am open to better deals (from hobbyists) Or off e-bay, infact, someone already approached me with a 175 watt MH kit for 75 dollars, which I might snatch up.

Now, obviously reducing the start up cost of my tank is welcome! I am looking for a crisp powerful light that brings out all the colors of a fish, the Lions are going to be obviously rich in reds and browns and I want those colors to be as rich and vibrant as the corals I plan to put in there.

(BTW have seen some gorgeous coral specimens photographed here!)

I am open to your wisdom! And thanks for all the welcomes... I have a friend name Brian who is lurking around here... he's already started cycling his tank... say hi to him and see if you can draw him out of the shadows... he's shy! :)

[Ram_Puppy]

Ok.. my home account. (Workpuppy happened because I registered Ram_Puppy at work, and the e-mail and password went home! ;)

quick little bump and another question.

What is the best source of fiji, tonga, or nabali live rock in the area or online? Once the tank cycles, I am planning on adding about twenty more pounds of the good stuff.

Thanks for answering my questions guys!

[Tim Marvin]

I can get you a 45-50 lbs box of fresh un-cured for $3. a lbs still in the box. Or $3.50 cured.

[matt]

I'll add my vote for a single de hqi mini pendent. Cheapest I've seen for a 250W is $315 at marine depot, that's with a 10000K ushio de bulb. Trying to light this tank with florescents is a mistake, IMO. Plus, if you get the pendent, you can hang it over your tank some distance from the water, and leave the top open. This will really help with the heat issue. If you want to keep any shallow water photosynthetic animals, I'm pretty certain PCs won't really cut it. You'd have to cram so many in the hood and keep them so close to the water you'd have heat problems anyway. Plus, a hex tank is the right shape for a single pendent.

I'm not familiar with your filtration set up, so i can't comment, other than to say that the vast majority of successful reef tanks use no mechanical filtration other than protein skimmers. The remora pro is probably okay for this size tank, provided you get the mag 3 option. It's pricey, though. Maybe premium has a slightly damaged one on sale, I can't remember.

A couple of things I didn't catch from your post were flow plans and calcium/carbonate replenishing. You'll want to figure out these issues as well. Especially flow; with enough flow and the right bio community, detritus shouldn't be a problem. As long as you're in the spiny mode with the lionfish, I'd suggest a diadema urchin. Excellent grazer, and I don't think the fish can eat one.

Its nice to see a "newbie" who is planning well and thinking about the animals first, then the set-up. Good luck!

Matt

[Tim Marvin]

These halides run very cool underneath also. I can hold my hand just inches from the lense and not get burned. Most of the comes out through the top and can easily be moved away with a fan. Great lights, and they will work wonders on your acropora.

[Work_Puppy]

Ok...

So the general consensus is to slap a metal halide pendant up... I think I can take a hint!

One of the things I have to take into consideration is light blindness, which is a problem in lions exposed to to much light, in this tank, it may not be a bad idea for the lower regions to have a little less light.

But I figure I can accomplish that with overhangs, which lions like to rest upside down under any how. I'll start pricing out metal halid pendants...

question on 20K's... do they offer a harsh blue/white light? If I want a more realistic daylight appearance, do I need to suppliment the light with something else?

Also, Red Dragon offered me a 175watt for a good price, I am guessing if I go with a single pendant, thent his is not powerful enough.

As far as flow is concerned: Initially, I had forgotten about it. however, in the last few days I have come up with a plan of 4 powerheads, in sets of two, on either side of the tanks central rock column, facing out, I found an 'inexpensive' wave timer that is basically a power strip with 3 sockets with built in timers. I may embed a 5th power head in the live rock to puse directly out into the tank.

I am open to powerhead suggestions, as I have not picked a brand, though, I have never had good luck with Rio, and was leaning toward MaxiJets.

The only 'mechanical' filter being considered for the tank is possibly the magnum 350, or a fluval replacement, and this is only because I have heard lions are incredibly messy fish... I am currently planning on leaving such a filter off until I can tell more with first hand.. if it needs polishing every now and agaon, great, if not, great.

BTW, the Eheim 2229 is a wet dry, and it pulses water in and out, simulating wave action. I have heard good things from a lFS employee that runs one, however, this to may wait a while... as therei s easily going to be almsot a hundred pounds of LR in this tank, plus the Remora Pro (without the Magdrive) is rated at 90 plus gallons) (though I am probably getting the magdrive) I think it may be all I need until the lions grow a little.