Rusty Red Slime Alert

[Sherri]

SOMETHING is going on. All my levels read great. My alkalinity is a bit low @ 2.5. I have a rusty red slime "cyano" (?) growing in patches on my sandbed and on some of my rocks. There are bubbles trapped in the ones on my rock. I noticed tonight that there is a "film" on the top surface of my water.

What to do???????????????? What is causing it? Can't be a good thing! Huh? Everybody & everything are ok...did a 10% water change April 3rd.

Salinity .024
Nitrate no trace
Nitrite no trace
Ammonia no trace
Alkalinity 2.5
Calcium 440

Takin' a deep breath!!!!! :?

Thanks.....Sherri

[Tim Marvin]

Chemi clean. It will be gone in 24 hours.

[Triggerman]

chemi clean like tim said will work. the only thing that puzzles me is why you have a film on the top of the water. does any of returns or powerheads break the top of the water, if not try to get them to break up the surface water this will also create good oxygen exchange. also try running some carbon to help out with the cyano break out, but you can't use the chemi clean and carbon together. if you have chemi clean use that first. do you have plenty of sand stirrers or a good cleanup crew?

[Tim Marvin]

Right I didn't think of that. You need a good surface skimming overflow and surface agitation. GOOD POINT.

[Yves Nobleza]

Do you run carbon for long periods of time? carbon (so I'm told releases phosphates after 5 days or so)...chemi clean is really good stuff like the others said, you could also try increasing water flow in the tank.

[Sherri]

Yeah, one of the returns does break the top of the water...the area in front of it is clear...Could the bubbles in the algae create the film if they pop maybe? I don't have a powerhead...have always wondered if I need one. The only one that has seen my tank setup is Troy Valentine. Kakfish (Ken) knows how it was drilled also. I don't have any blockage at the dam or at the intake valve. So the flow is fine. Never had the prob before.

By the way...what causes this red cyano outbreak? I've got 20 snails and about 8-10 hermits from Troy. I had hair algae on the back glass also, but the snails are munching on it real well. What would I need as sand stirrers? Doesn't seem it is too stirred! Kinda feel that I may have a small "dead area" on the far left side of the tank where the intake valve is. This is where I was thinking I may need a powerhead. If I were to get one...How powerful for a 100 gal reef?

Also...noticing the temp is going up during the heat of the day...so I bought a sm fan today to blow toward my lights. Really noticed a difference. Could feel the heat of the lights going out the other end. (Hamilton 440 VHO setup) Can the rise in temp cause this algae growth?

Will get ChemiClean tomorrow...

Thanks
Sherri

[Triggerman]

red cyano is a sign of excess nutrients in your system. from something that might of died (are all the snails accounted for), excess food, tap water, chemicals, etc. sometimes its hard to pinpoint or locate. with more flow the cyano doesn't grow as well main reason why you see it growing in your dead spots were there's lack of flow. you don't have to get a huge powerhead something maybe like a maxijet 1200 or marineland 660 will do. get some nassarius snails at least a dozen or so these little guys are great since they like to burrow through the sand and also fighting conchs they also burrow. also try brittle stars as well and they tend to locate anything that might of died and didn't realize. if you want me to drop by to check out your tank and give you my take (good or bad) let me know and i'll make some arrangements.

[Sherri]

This is the my setup at the present:

Water Pump 1060 580 gph

Iwaki circulation pump 960 gph

Urchin Pro Skimmer w/pump in sump

30" Entry Filter w/refugium

If at all possible Ray, in your busy schedule...I would appreciate a stop by. You just let me know what is good for you. I'll send you a PM. In the meantime...I'm gonna go get some ChemiClean tomorrow.

Thanks...Sherri

[Sherri]

Thanks Josh...will do. Just concerned about this film on top of water & the bubbles trapped in the algae. I don't know of anything that is MIA...the snails are busying munching on the hair algae on the back glass, so they are pretty much in clear view. Talk about a cleanup crew! Will be easy to count. The only MIA I've had is a sm colt frag that came loose and went into the LR about a month ago. I never did find it.

Like I told Ray...I don't think I have enough "sand sifters" and may need a powerhead?????

Sherri

[Sherri]

I feed Formula 2, frozen brine shrimp,Spirulina flakes (I alternate) but very little at a time. I watch & make sure all food is eaten before I add anymore. I also add about 1-2 tsps of Kent PhytoPlex and ChromaPlex once a week.

The cyano was there before the water change, but not as much as it is now. I had started a thread about RO/DI units a couple of weeks ago. I am still carting jugs of water from HEB. :oops: Am working on getting a RO/DI real soon. So I know the quality isn't as good as having a RO/DI, but still hopefully can't be as bad as tap water.

Don't know if you remember earlier threads about me trying to catch a LARGE rock crab and a sponge crab that hijacked some LR before I could put anything in the tank in fear that they would eat/kill it. The rock crab was aggressive and killed a few small crabs that had hijacked LR also. I had hair algae on the back glass when I had just the 2 crabs - no feeding at all. Started adding livestock Feb 25th, but I only have 4 sm fish and 2 cleaner shrimp. Finally got 20 snails from Troy back on 3/22 - not quite a month ago. They've just about cleaned off the entire back glass except for one large patch that is left. The hermits I've had since Feb 25th also.

Sherri

[Sherri]

I'm very careful in feeding...since I don't have that much livestock, I watch how much goes in at a time...

I personally think it is the water quality (HEB!) and maybe needing a powerhead for the left side of the tank now that livestock has been in for 2 months now.

Sherri

[matt]

[quote="Sherri"]This is the my setup at the present:

Water Pump 1060 580 gph

Iwaki circulation pump 960 gph

Urchin Pro Skimmer w/pump in sump

30" Entry Filter w/refugium

Sherry;

Looking at this flow for a 100 gal, I would say that you probably need more, especially if your figures don't take into account head pressure, friction from your lines, elbows, etc. You may actually be getting 30-40% less than the rated flow for the pumps. In my 45, I have an iwaki rated at 800gph, plus 4 powerheads; 2 mj1200 and 2 mj600. I still have cyano build up in my slow flow spots. Once you add lots of rock to break up the flow, it's almost impossible to keep moving throughout your tank without several flow sources.

It seems like the advice you're getting is good. I had a nasty cyano break out in my nano, and I got rid of it by doing several 40% water changes, like one a week for several weeks, siphoning off all the cyano as I could, and reducing the nutrient input. It still took a few months. Now I'm about to do the same thing in my 45. You mentioned a 10% water change; well, that still leaves 90% of the problem nutrients in your system. Another thing is you have the urchin pro, which, unless you drive it with a mag pump, is probably pretty underpowered for a system your size. As far as the water quality of HEB R.O. water, I'd be pretty suspect. The problem with testing for nutrients like nitrate and phosphate (which you didn't test for and is a likely contributor) is that our test kits are not as good at detecting levels of these nutrients as the algae themselves; in fact, if you have some nitrate/phosphate, you could test and get zero level only because the algae has already sequestered the stuff; the presence of algae alone is enough evidence that you do definitely have nitrate/phosphate in the system. Soooo.. here's my recommendation, and this exactly what I'm doing on my system to get rid of the annoying slime:

1. Several big water changes with water that you know is low in TDS. Like maybe 4 or 5 30-40% changes over a couple of months. Make sure you siphon off as much of the cyano as you can.

2. Get the biggest pump you can for your skimmer

3. Put several powerheads in to increase flow in the spots algae is accumulating

4. Boost your sand bed with a detrivore package; or just get some live sand from a few well established tanks to get the micro fauna going. Hermits and snails don't do much for cyano; supposedly, a fighting conch is good. If anyone knows a local source for one of these, I want one!

5. Be patient; with the best of efforts, it may take a few months to get it under control. So far I have not resorted to chemi-clean, but I may try it. Several folk have reported good luck with it. It won't fix the cause, though.

HTH

Matt

[Sherri]

Thanks for all the input Matt...My tank has been set up since September...Is was started with an established bed out of another tank...mega micro fauna...and about 80 lbs. of established cured Fiji rock. I have since added additional rock to take it up to about 125-130 lbs. Finished with rock back 1st of January. I have great coralline all over my rocks, even have to keep scraping my glass. I have a Rio 1400 with my Urchin Pro.

I DID test my nitrate & phosphate. NO trace at all.

Update as of today:

Purchased Chemi Clean and treated tank.

Purchased Marineland 1140 (330 GPH) and placed it on left side of tank. I can already see a difference in the movement of course. The film on top of the water is pretty much gone already.

Purchased a sand starfish...for a sand stirrer...

Before there was RO/DI units...did any of you guys ever have this prob with the quality of water??? This is my next step..apparently is gonna have to be!

Sherri

[Triggerman]

i just glanced at the conches they had available and i believe judging by the shells they were queen conches, could be wrong though. on the crown of the shell the queens come to spikes i believe and the fighting are more smooth. i'll be seeing if i can get some of the aquacultured babies within the next couple of weeks or so, the ones i've gotten in the past were already adult size and kind of exspensive, but they are good cleaners.

[matt]

Ray;

Definitely count me in for a tank raised fighting conch. I don't mind paying some extra for tank raised livestock!

Matt

[Sherri]

Update on the red slime: I CAN'T GET RID OF IT! It is spreading on my rocks. (2 rocks & starting on 3rd) Treated it with ChemiClean...didn't get it. Should I use Reef Carbon? If I do...is it gonna pull my trace elements out? How long should I wait if I were to treat with ChemiClean again as I know I need to be careful. Starting to panic here....Everything...including all corals...mushrooms....clam & scallop are FINE and ALL 4 fish are fine.

Really puzzled on this one. This is the 1st I've seen since I first set my tank up with tap water back in September.

Gonna test all levels again today & see what I get again. Will post.

Sherri

[Sherri]

No... :oops:

Switched to Distilled water till I can...hopefully real soon.

This may be a stupid question...hehe...would it hurt to take out these 3 rocks (they don't have anything on them - (maybe 1 small polyp) & brush this c*** off with a toothbrush??????? :hammer:

I've got great purple coralline on my rocks...continously having to scrape my glass...

Sherri

[Tim Marvin]

Did you turn off any skimmer and remove manual filters when you treated with chemi-clean? I can't beleive it didn't work.......Hmmmmm. Yes you can take the rocks out and scrub them, or take something and baste the rocks off in a bucket before placing them back in the tank.

[Sherri]

Tim...No, I didn't turn off my protein skimmer but I did remove my poly filter...

If I were to treat it again with Chemi Clean...how long should I wait?

Thanks...Sherri

[witecap4u]

As with any type of medication you put in your tank, you should

1) Remove any Carbon filtration media
2) Turn off your Skimmer.

Both will remove medications/chemical you put into the water.

...cs

[Chuck]

Hi Sherri,
You mentioned the temp of your tank was up.. Did you change your photo period?
IMO The slime is not a red flag of doom... I have it on occasion and it will go away on its own. How old are your lights and are they clean? I read a study about how bulbs can get hot enough to change the spectrum they produce. When I first installed my power quad's I was blessed with red and yellow slim. They both went away in about a week so I am not sure if it relates or not. One critter you may consider for your sand bed is a pistol shrimp. I have a pair with a weaver goby and they actually pull up the yellow slime and take it back into their cave. I assume they eat it?
Anyway they do an excellent job of keeping the bed clean and the only drawback is that they knock over a sponge or gorgonian occasionally with their digign effort.
I add a generous amount of Iodine/Phyto/Trace/& Calcium weekly, in addition to normal feeding (Garlic enhanced flake & krill) every 3 days. Without any filtration. Hope it turns out for ya!

[Sherri]

My bulbs are 5 1/2 mos old. In fact, I'm in on a group order with Hellolights for new ones. I have 440 watts (3 White 50/50 & 1 Act) I have them on timers - 1 white & 1 act come on in the AM, then other 2 whites come on for the afternoon, then back to the 1 white & 1 act for late afternoon. I think this started since we've gotten warmer weather. The tank sits on the west side of the house with windows behind it (I keep blinds drawn) and the back of the tank is painted black. There is no DIRECT sun hitting it. Guess I'll shorten the full 440 effect back to the 1/1 earlier in the afternoon during hotter months. I have a Hamilton light setup - the bulbs are enclosed in the unit with vents on both ends. We have the unit enclosed in the canopy. The canopy is open in the back.

I agree Chuck...I don't think it's a sign of doom either. My concern is the spreading from rock to rock. It gets bubbles trapped in the red slime late afternoon (prob in the heat of the day) - when & if they pop, it looks like it is leaving a slight film on the surface. The rocks that have it are my most highest rocks in the tank where I have my clam sitting (it asn't quite reached where the clam is). I do have a few patches on my bed too.

By the way...doesn't a pistol shrimp do a lot of digging? Prob wouldn't be a good thing for me...it may shift my rock aquascaping.

Is it too early to treat with ChemiClean again (this time with no poly filter & turning off the skimmer? :oops: )

Thanks - Sherri

[Chuck]

The shrimp do dig quite a bit. I have my rock braced fairly well so they haven't caused to many problems. I can't offer any advice on the chemi clean as I have never used it. It is still possible that your bulbs have shifted enough to produce a range that is beneficial to the slime... Just a guess.
Good Luck!!

[Sherri]

Could be Chuck...like I said...I have new bulbs ordered. We'll see...

Appreciate it. Will update when/if any changes...

Sherri

[matt]

Hi sherri;

I would suggest you keep doing those water changes; you'll have to change several times the volume of the tank over a few months to really impact on the nutrient levels. Keep siphoning out the slime, get your water moving as much as possible, and be patient. If you have a place to keep liverock outside the tank, you can try removing a few rocks; this will help flow. I did that on my nano a while back and it really helped. It took me several months to balance my system. Still working on the 45, but the water changes, lower feeding, and increased flow will really get rid of the stuff over time. The bottom line is you've created an eco system that produces more dissolved nutrients than you are exporting and/or processing. It's real easy to do; so far I've done it on all three reefs I've set up. For me, it has taken about 6 months to a year for the systems to accumulate nutrient level where the slime algae has been a problem, and a few months of countermeasures to eliminate it. Probably I overfeed when the system is new, thinking I have to grow a healthy sand bed fauna.

BTW, I'm building a big beckett skimmer for my soon-to-be 100 gal reef. I'm hoping that with a skimmer much larger than typical skimmers for this size tank, I can start with a margin of extra nutrient export. I'm also going to start with only the rock in my 45; no new stuff despite the much larger tank. One thing that's often overlooked is that the substrate in our tanks soon becomes home for nutrient producers, as well as consumers. Since we have a tiny amount of water for this amount of substrate compared to the "real thing" I think it's very difficult to not overload our systems.

Sorry for the rambling reply;

Matt

Slime algae, what a PITA!

[Sherri]

Yeah Matt...mixed salt today for a water change. Patience....I do have. Just don't like the looks of this nasty stuff iin my beautiful tank...Think I got the increased flow taken care of. If I had :oops: turned off my skimmer when I treated with ChemiClean (Duh!) it might have initally gotten it out. But I know I've still have the prob to eliminate.

Thanks for all your imput...with all this help & advice...I'll get it. But I do think once I get a RO/DI unit...a lot of this will cease...at least I switched from filling my gal jugs at HEB to buying gals of distilled water till I get the RO/DI.

Will keep posted.... :D

Sherri

[witecap4u]

Hopefully the Distilled water will help you. I didnt have any luck with it, but maybe you will. If it looks like it will be a while before you get you RO/DI, you might consider a Tap Water Filter. Its just a DI canister that hooks up to your faucet. I've been using it for the past 6 months, and it seems to work great. You can pick them up for $45 and will probably get about 100-150gal out of the cartridge. New cartridges are like $25 but you could also put this on an RO unit and maybe spread the cost of the ro/di out a little....

cs

[Sherri]

Thought I'd give an update to my prob with red slime & what I've done so far to fight it.

Still haven't gotten an RO/DI unit....soon tho. :oops: But happy to report that since I quick filling up my gallons at the HEB machine...and changed to distilled water...got a power head...and sand starfish...it is starting to disappear. Haven't medicated it at all since the 1st dose of ChemiClean (which did nothing).

I replaced my bulbs (thanks JimN & Chris) today and WOW...what a difference! I think my 6 month old bulbs were in BAD need of replacing. So I know that is going to make an even better difference. My neon green polyps & green star polyps are neon again! Everything has beautiful colors again! lol

By the way...just how often do bulbs need to be replaced so I'll know?

Nice feeling to see everything coming around & doing great again...even the hair algae is just about gone. One small patch left. :D

Thanks for all the info & help...

Sherri

[witecap4u]

If theres a really dramatic change in the lighting, you might want to run them a few hours less for a week or so, just to let everything acclimate to the new lighting. Another method is to change one bulb a week or something to that effect....

I think recomened is 6-9months for Flourescents BTW

cs