Copper!!!!!!!!

[Andrew]

When I had my first tank, FOWLR,
I had about 6-8 fish in a 29 gal.
I got a new fish, don't remember what
it was, and the entire tank got ick (at least that's what I thought it was-white spots on body and fins; my Bangaii cardinal caught it last, and fins began to dissapear - eaten away.

I treated w/ coppersafe, but started to late (disease had progressed)
and lost everything. I replaced the HOB w/ new emperor 280 not long thereafter, and ran that for the next I don't know how many months (at least 6, maybe a yr.)

Without thinking, I put the emperor on my 20 long to cure some live rock several weeks ago (just realized about the filter couple days ago). until using it for this rock, filter hadn't been used in a yr. + 1/2, and it's been washed out w/water before using.

I got a copper test today and result was .05 (or maybe less) mg/l

Is this an acceptable reading, or should I not use the filter, rock in my soon to be reef?(I'm planning on testing again to make sure results accurate)

[Andrew]

Any suggestions?

[Triggerman]

if you are showing even a sm. amount of copper that would kill any type of life you might have growing on your rock. chances are if it's new rock you're still curing than you don't have much growing on the rock anyway. you need to run fresh carbon and change it weekly until your copper level is at zero you can also try cupramine made my seachem. also if you haven't changed out the old biowheel then change it out as well, the old wheel might have contained some copper.

[DustinWayman]

There is also Poly-Filter, I run it in my tank and it supposidly works great! I havent tested, but just run it as a precaution.

~Dust

[Andrew]

Poly Fiber?(what is it?)

And should I put a new bio wheel in now, even though there's still trace amounts of copper?, or wait for copper to go ta zero? and run the carbon until then
?
Thanks

P.S. what is the natural amount of copper in the ocean, or is there any?

[Triggerman]

you need to wait for the copper level to reach zero before adding the new wheel. just keep running fresh carbon, make sure you're not using the old filter pads as well. also if you plan on running this filter on a sm. reef than it's really not necessary to have a biowheel as your liverock and livesand will serve as the main biological filtration.

poly-filter is a white pad that's supposed to absorb multiple amounts of nutrients and chemicals such as copper. it's good to use as well you just have to place it somewhere in the emperor so water is passing thru it.

[DustinWayman]

Andrew, check this link out http://www.poly-bio-marine.com/polyprod.htm , they explain what it is, its just a fiber mat that you can cut and put in your filter or tank next to a water movement source. Its cheap online, just 5.95 at marinedepot.com .

Good luck!
~Dust

[DustinWayman]

I have heard the same thing, I will look up what levels these are. They are also listed in the ingredients in some pre packaged LS, but that is just as a trace mineral, I believe.

~Dust

[Andrew]

From the test kit I have(aquarium systems), it's hard to tell exactly what the copper level is,
but it's definitely no higher than .05, maybe even lower

[Andrew]

great idea!!!!!!!

(too compare!!!!!!!!)

;)

[Andrew]

to, not too

[Triggerman]

well i looked on a salt analysis of natural seawater and the copper level is at .003 mg/l which should be undetectable with any of the test kits available.

.05 is a little high since even if you're treating for ick the safe copper level range for fish is between .02-.03 mg/l anything over that fish don't tend to tolerate or do well.

safe bet to go ahead and run fresh carbon until you can detect zero levels.

[Andrew]

On page 5 in this forum, Ken Kohler says natural seawater is .09ppm copper.

Is that the same as .003 mg/l?

[Andrew]

I tested my water again, then made up some new water in a pitcher and tested to compare the two:

>both tests looked identical to the naked eye - perfectly clear

>however, my test kit only goes down to .05 mg/l, so could there still be toxic levels of copper that my test kit can't read?

>until last week, I had been running carbon in the filter, and put more back in today

>also, when I had that setup 2 years ago, and some time after I treated w/copper (free ionic), I purchased an LTA and cinnamon clown and both did very well. Will copper not affect anemones, just corals and such? If copper would affect LTA, and nothing (bad) happened to mine, can I assume my copper level acceptable?

(I just want to be 100% sure that copper levels are low enough before I put that filter and rock in my new tank)

[Andrew]

? :?

[Andrew]

thank you all

the tests look the same as far as I could tell

I wasn't planning on getting corals till end of summer (late august at earliest), so if I run a skimmer for a few months, will it take care of trace amounts of copper?

[Richard]

Hello Andrew,
Are you sure your reading the test correctly? I looked at the Aquarium Systems website and they say the range the fasTest copper test kit is 0 - .25 mg/l. Also you said you had used coppersafe which is a chelated copper and I think the fasTest kit is designed for testing ionic copper like Seacure from Aquarium Systems. I would not expect you to have high copper levels from a filter if you only used coppersafe a once or even a few times. In any event just use carbon or polyfilter and you should not have any worries. I actually treated my main tank (with 140 lbs of liverock in it) with copper twice to get rid of an ich problem. It knocked back some of the life on the rock but everthing grew back after about 6 weeks. I have since added corals with no problems.

Richard
Cb Pets

[TexasState]

What kind of copper did you treat your main tank with? Copper could be silent until an event trigger the release.
These trigger events includes:
pH shift,
well, that's all the event I can think of right now

[Richard]

I used organicure which is a chelated copper/ formalin cocktail. Yes copper combines with carbonates in the aquarium to form an insoluble copper carbonate. This copper can be released if the ph drops to 7.0 or below. My thinking is that if my ph drops to 7 then copper is the least of my problems.

[Andrew]

I read the label on the copper ick treatment, and it's definitely ionic (free)
copper, not chelated (confirmed this as well with a fellow maast member here in SA who works at LFS).

the color chart for the test kit shows .05 to .25, the color getting lighter as copper concentration goes down. .05 is cloudy, yet somewhat tranparent.

I think I'll keep the rock in a bucket w/emperor >carbon for some weeks
just to be safe

Thanks all :D