Protein Skimmer?

[Andrew]

Going to start my first reef (40 gal). Is it imperative that I have a skimmer? looking to go w/40+ lbs. live rock, 40#live sand, and currently have emperor280 for filtration(thinking of adding another). Planned occupants (to be added over several mos., the corals later), as follows:

-3 Kauderns' cardinal
-a pair of clowns
-goby or blenny
-small wrasse (six line, canary, etc.)
(too many fish?)
any advice would be greatly appreciated.
--andrew--

[captexas]

As this is your first reef tank I would definately recommend you use a skimmer. Especially with only 40lbs of live rock and that many fish and corals in a small tank. I know 40lbs sounds like a lot, but when you put it in the tank, there will still be plenty of room. The live rock and sand bed will act more as your filtration system than the Emperor 280. I would ditch the hang on filter although you can use it for circulation if you want, but you still need to add some powerheads as that is not sufficient water movement. As it is not a large tank you don't need anything expensive or fancy when it comes to the skimmer. People seem to have good experiences with Prizms on small tanks. Other people may know of some other skimmers that would work as well. If you keep an eye out on here or Reef Central, you might be able to buy a used one for not much cash.

[MikeP]

Andrew, on the skimmer - honestly it will take a few weeks for it to start producing any skimmate. If you are going to be setting the tank up with new live rock it can help in the curing process by skimming out some of the dissolved organics but a few water changes would work just as well to start with. Long term skimmers are in my opinion almost a must have in a tank with a high bioload (fish mostly) unless you have other methods for getting nutrients out of your system regulary. I like the Aqua-C skimmers, CPR Bakpak get good ratings for tanks that size too. I would avoid SeaClones they are overrated and need a lot of tweaking to get good results.

On your stocking level it looks fine except the Bangaii's (Kaudern) if you get them as juveniles thye may be ok for a while but when one set pairs off they will harass and kill the odd fish out - be warned. It can be hard to get a pair otherwise though so just keep an eye on them - you could also get 3 females they won't likely fight. For a blenny I like bi-color's (I have one in my 46 and one in my 18 gallon).

For reference my 46 gallon has the following fish:

- 3 Neon Gobies (have not seen the mated pair in a few days either they are laying eggs or died / got eaten)

- biColor Blenny

- Mated Pair of Bangaii Cardinals

- Pair of plotinus coral catfish

- 1 cleaner shrimp

- 1 large pistol shrimp

- various conchs, cowries and snails

[Andrew]

Thanks so much for the (unanimous)advice; I had received conflicting opinions in the past concerning skimmers (from books and local store clerks).

Will I have to add many supplements when I use a skimmer?
or will frequent water changes(every 2 weeks) w/a good salt mix replenish the removed elements (calcium, moybdenum, iodine, etc.)

[Andrew]

been looking at prizm and CPR bak pak skimmers. . .
am I better off getting one w/out the combo filter (2 in 1) since I'll have live sand/rock, or does it not matter? Prices don't seem to vary much between the two.

[stan]

I have a CPR bak pak and a sea clone. the bakpak does a very good job and some times I can adjust the seaclone to work fairly good, but needs constant adjustment everyday while the bakpak I never adjust. I have the one with the filter medium I do not see what it can harm and since they are the same price why not get it? You can take out the medium if you want to.

[TexasState]

been looking at prizm and CPR bak pak skimmers. . .


Given the two choices, I would go with the Bak Pak 2R
Bak Pak 2r is more quiet, easy to adjust, and you can stick a heater inside the Bak Pak.

[Andrew]

cool

As far as salt goes, will Instant Ocean work, or should I go with something like reef crystals or the stuff on the newest post
(in gen. reefkeeping)

[MikeP]

Andrew you mentioned what to add when you get a skimmer. If you are doing regular water changes I would add nothing but calcium to start with. Most of the other trace elements are replaced doing regular water changes. I occasionally dose some Iron for my macroalgaes but other than that nothing.

[Hammer]

Mike,
I caution you to not make such a broad statement. Especially when you are talking about calcium. If you only added caclium you would have serious issues. You need to add alk buffers along with calcium to maintain the balanced tank. So adding kalk or a balanced system is a more appropriate way to say this.
I am jsut trying to say that it is too easy to get lost in the whole alk/ca debical in reefkeeping, and take a simple approach without knowing better. I know a lot of us have done this when we are still learning (we always are).

[MikeP]

Ed, your right. I meant a 2 part ca / alk buffer of some type.

I stand by my opinion that most other additives are not necessary with regular water changes.

[Hammer]

Yeah Mike, I was pretty sure that's what you meant, I just didn't want anyone getting confused over something that simple.

[Andrew]

just out of curiosity, what is alk buffer made of?
Calcium+?

[Hammer]

To make it cheap, 5 parts baking soda to 1 part washing soda.

To get the chemistry answer, you best bet is to visit Randy's section, Chemistry forum on reefcentral.com
Between Randy, Habib and Guy, they can answer any question you got. And they already have answered (better then I ever could) these questions before.

[Brett Wilson]

Here is some great reading on alk, PH, calcium, and their relationships.

Calcium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2002/chem.htm

Alkalinity
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/iss...2/chemistry.htm

Calcium and Alkalinity Balance Issues
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-...ature/index.htm

Calcium Carbonate as a Supplement
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/iss...ly2002/chem.htm

The Relationship Between Alkalinity and pH.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2002/chem.htm

Solutions to pH Problems
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/iss...ne2002/chem.htm

The Chemical & Biochemical Mechanisms of Calcification in Corals
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/apr2002/chem.htm


Master list from the chemistry master over at RC, Randy Holmes-Farley:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102605


Hope that helps!
-Brett

[Andrew]

Thanks for all the advice, and the references (to my question on Alk,etc.)
Hopefully I'll be able to make it to the next meeting (especially likely if in SA - the sea world idea sounds awesome) and meet all of you.
Thanks again,
Andrew