What do you dose your tank with ?

[z28pwr]

I'm setting up my first reef tank and was wondering what everyone was using to dose their tank.

So far I've purchased a 64 oz. Kent Calcium bottle and a 16 oz Kent Iodine bottle. I was going to by the trace elements but wasn't sure If I needed it.

What do you guys think about maintaining Calcium with the Kent's Calcium Choride? I've heard that I should be ok as long as I do a water change once a month.

I plan on keeping calcium at 400 or should I go higher ?

Thanks.

[z28pwr]

Don't dose the calcium without also dosing an Alk supplement, they'll get way out of whack on you.

Now that my reactor is up and running I don't put anything in the tank. I used to drip kalk, and may start again if I can't find another way to keep my pH stable.

What should I use to supplement the Alk, DKH ?

What do you think about the Sea Test test kits by Aquarium Systems ?

[newtosa]

Jose,

Kalkwasser and B-ionic. That's it. Used to buy the bottled stuff (Iron, Iodine, Magnesium, all the rest of that crap).

I do water changes almost never. Maybe 10% every 4-6 months. Really, it's so infrequent I don't even remember.

I would not even consider using CaCl2 as a maintenance Ca additive.

The most important question you need to be answering for yourself is what animals you're going to keep. Your animals drive Ca demand. If demand is high, determine whether your evaporation rate will be high enough to allow a "KW-only" calcium strategy. If so, I would stop right there, open a Shiner Bock and give myself a little back pat.

Seriously, though, this hobby is for making you happy (after you've taken care of the animals' well-being). If it makes you happy to use bottled additives, you shouldn't let someone like me stand in your way.

If KW doesn't work (because of high Ca demand or low evaporation rate), I would seriously consider a calcium carbonate reator. (In fact, because I've added too many SPS corals recently, I am considering doing exactly that right now). You can take care of alkalinity and all the trace elements you'll need right there. And after setup cost, it's cheap.

CHRIS - Who is doing Programming for the next meeting or 2? This topic can be very complicated, and because it's pretty closely tied to spending money it can be emotionally charged. And all the recent questions on it indicate it might be a big help to address it in a meeting.

Thanks,
Dean

[djdubdub]

Has anyone tried the Kent Tech CB???

[newtosa]

Good balanced additive. Used it in smaller tanks for a long time, until it got kind of expensive. If you can afford it long-term, it's good stuff.

ESV also has this (I'd be shocked if it was any different chemically). And Two Little Fishies.

And B-ionic calcium, in powder form. All of these are good balanced additives.

Thanks,
Dean

[djdubdub]

LiveAquaria has it on sale for 9.99 for each bottle 128oz bottle (it's a 2 parter)... 128oz will treat 15,000 gallons....

Just FYI...

[z28pwr]

I guess I will use the Kent Liquid Calcium to bring up my calcium to the desired level then I will need to think of a way of keeping it there.

How expensive are KW's and which are good brands to look for.

Thanks.

[newtosa]

Grocery store pickling lime is $1.29 for a Mrs. Wage's bag that lasts me a month or so (using 1.5-2 gallons per day of limewater).

Kent KW powder (or any other brand: ESV and Captive Reef Additives have good stuff) runs about $10 for the same amount if you do mail order. Even this is a cheap solution compared to the bottled stuff.

Pickling lime vs. official KW powder could start a whole other thread (and go on forever), and it's not my intent to start one. Only wanted to say that either way, it's a cost-effective way to get Ca into your reef.

http://www.maast.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic& t=504

Thanks,
Dean

[minimasterflash]

I have a small tank, 7 gal plus 5 gal refuge. But from the research I have been doing, dosing B-ionic once every two days should help with coraline growth and maintain my Ph well. Also from what I've read it doesn't seem that many people really believe in all the complex trace element additives. As the trace elements are believed to be returned with regular water changes. "Most" people either use a kalkwasser drip or a balanced Ca+Alk additive such as B-ionic.

[minimasterflash]

I have a small tank, 7 gal plus 5 gal refuge. But from the research I have been doing, dosing B-ionic once every two days should help with coraline growth and maintain my Ph well. Also from what I've read it doesn't seem that many people really believe in all the complex trace element additives. As the trace elements are believed to be returned with regular water changes. "Most" people either use a kalkwasser drip or a balanced Ca+Alk additive such as B-ionic.

[TexasState]

How expensive are KW's and which are good brands to look for.
z28pwr, with all those tanks you have, you might want to buy a 25 pounds sack: :lol:
http://www.esvco.com/ESVPRICE.HTM (The price direct from the manufactured is more expensive then if bought elsewhere online.)
ESV also carry oolithic sand.

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=PA&Category_Cod e=ESV


for a Mrs. Wage's bag that lasts me a month or so (using 1.5-2 gallons per day of limewater).


I haven't been able to use up half of the bag since last August. I guess I'm not on top of things like Dean is.

[z28pwr]

Thanks Vinh.

NewTOSa
So do I need a KW to drip the Pickling Lime or can I just pour it into the tank and will this affect my PH/alkilinity in such a way that I will need to use DKH along with it?


Seems like I should have gotten the Bionic if I was going to get liquid.

NewToSA I agree with you that this would be a good topic in one of the meetings since I'm sure that there are others like me (or so I think) out there.


Thanks for your patience.

[newtosa]

So do I need a KW to drip the Pickling Lime or can I just pour it into the tank
KW is just Kalkwasser - another name for limewater. It's what you drip into the tank or sump after you've mixed RO water and lime (KW powder / calcium hydroxide / Ca(OH)2 / "pickling lime").
Drip or dump? That's definitely a religious question. I'll let you decide for yourself:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104871

My answer is drip. IMO - safer, less maintenance time, and better for the animals. I mix KW about once a week, turn the drip on slow, and walk away and forget about it until the next weekend. Vinh uses another method that works too (again IMO, more risky for your first reef); see
http://www.maast.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic& t=504
for his and my methods. As Vinh reminds, don't forget to test the water!


and will this affect my PH/alkilinity in such a way that I will need to use DKH along with it?
Nope. In the 1st RC thread above, look for Randy Holmes-Farley's comments (a chemistry moderator for RC), as well as our own Minh's comments. Basically, CaCl2 is balanced for Ca and alkalinity, requiring no other alkalinity additive. If you mean "will dumping it in too fast raise pH too high," the answer is definitely yes. You gotta to be good if you're gonna dump it in there.


Seems like I should have gotten the Bionic if I was going to get liquid.
I use it as a trace additive; it's a powder. When & if I add a calcium carbonate reactor to put these trace elements back into the water, I'll stop using it.

It also is a great alk additive, but according to people brighter than I am, I don't *need* it for this purpose. In any case, it's insurance against my ignorance of the chemistry involved ;)

For a balanced Ca and alk additive, you could use any of the 2-part liquids mentioned in the last few days, or B-ionic, etc.


I agree with you that this would be a good topic in one of the meetings since I'm sure that there are others like me (or so I think) out there.
Absolutely; myself included. I'm sure there are quite a few things Minh and others could teach us all. Don't be too concerned about not having a complete grasp of this topic. It is definitely in the top 2 or 3 all-time questions list, and we've all asked the same questions.

Dean

[z28pwr]

Do I have to get a Air tight system to drip "Lime Water" into the tank ?

Could I use something like this to drip or what do you guys use to drip your kalk ?
http://www.aquadirect.com/catalog/dosing/kentmarine.htm

Also, what do you guys think about this http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/breefcase/kalkwasser.html

mixing the kalk with vinegar before dripping it ?

[TexasState]

Drip or dump?

Btwn the two, slowly dripping Kalk is definitely the best way!!! Unfortunately, not all of of want to go through the hassle, or have the time, or have the equipment to do a slow drip. Kalk "dumping" take about 30 second to do per night or morning. Who ever's reading this thread, don't dump Kalk powder straight into your tank. YOu're going to burn up lot of corals & snails if you dump the powder straight into the tank.

Becareful when you're working with pickling lime. Don't snip it through your nose or mouth, it could be cancerous over time. :-o

[utmachete]

I think that Kalkwasser is the way to go. especially if you already have a dosing pump. I've used it in my tank and calcium levels are always stable. Check this growth photo out. I bought this coral as a frag from a buddy in October, the earlier photo is zoomed in more than the recent one but that frag has quadrupled if not more in size. I use kalk for calcium, R/o water for make-up, 1 30 gallon water change every 2 months, 2 400 watt 85k iwasaki mh, 2x4ft 2x3ft actinic vhos, a refugium (caluerpa, mangroves), and my return pump pushes 3000 gallons per hr.

here is the url for the growth photo
https://webspace.utexas.edu/MWM614/www/shelf.html
many of my other corals have grown as well but this one is taking over.

[Tim Marvin]

I like kalk.

[Tim Marvin]

I have probably tried EVERY additive on the market..... None compare to doing Kalkwasser, which is what I have turned back to. I had excellent results with it 14 years ago and am still having excellent results today. I change about 20% of the water a month and drip Kalk. That is it. Tanks run in the 400's and low 500's in the garage, but that set-up also has a reactor on it. I use kent turbo calcium to get the calcium up originally and the kalk maintains it. Run from any store trying to sell you additives.

[utmachete]

There is a guy here in Austin that sells those dosing pumps really cheap (call Tim Marvin) they are really a good deal. I really think that unless I had a really big tank (like 500 + gallons) I wouldn't use a reactor. Maybe when the reactors are a little cheaper or I might try to make one. But really kalkwasser works great but you want the powder to be mixed with the water and then settle to the bottom. The Dosers are the cheapest and most time tested method for adding calcium to you tank.

[Triggerman]

JimD from austin showed his design of the kalkwasser reactor he came up with at the feb. meeting for dosing with kalk seemed to be a fairly easy method and a few others agreed with his results it gives. i think even jim norris was going to hook a couple up in his tank so hopefully they'll be installed by the time the meeting comes around and see how he likes them. this maybe the way to go easier with the same results is always better in my book, not sure how much he was selling them for.

also for those wanting to spend the money on a calcium reactor premium aquatics is having a power buy for one in march.

[z28pwr]

Thanks for clearing that up Josh.

Tim what kind of dosing pump are you using and how much do they run?


Isn't Jim's reactor just like this except he put an elboy to make a mini tornado in their.
http://camelreef.free.fr/equipment/equipment.html#kalk

[newtosa]

Jose -

You asked for our thoughts on the breefcase link (reefs.org KW thread)....
Basically, I don't agree at all with the first half of the thread (HCO3- good, CO3-- bad). Oversimplification at best, and it's part of the reason people get so confused. Both are "good" and important components of alkalinity. The fearmongering on this topic is completely out of hand: CO3-- and HCO3- achieve a balance in NSW, and they achieve a very similar balance in aquariums where CaCl2 (that's Turbo Calcium) is not dosed regularly, whether KW is dosed or not. In short, if you're not doing anything to screw up the balance, it will be fine.

Another favorite fearmonger topic: whether there's enough CO2 in your system to keep the Ca(OH)2 from precipitating out CaCO3, keep the Soviets out of Afghanistan... oops, I'm already ranting off target.

If you keep more swimmers per gallon in your closed system than the reef in the ocean has (and every one of us does), and you feed them to keep them alive & swimming around, you will have no shortage of CO2 during the daytime.

If you keep lots of reef-building corals and any macroalgaes at all, you will have no shortage of CO2 at night.

Sorry to vent, everyone. Just frustrated that there's so much noise out there on this topic. It's confusing enough as it is.

Jose - it looks like all the options you're considering are good ones. You'll do fine.

Thanks,
Dean

[z28pwr]

Thanks Dean, I may need to pick your brain a little more when it comes time to implementation if that's alright.

[Reefdude]

anyone happen to know the dimensions for the 2.5 gallon kent aquadoser???