Future Meetings

[captexas]

I decided to start a new thread separate from the current "Next meeting" thread so as not to take away from what seems like a good meeting plan/topic.

Unfortunately I have not made it to the previous meetings, but am looking forward to making it to the next one. I was curious if anyone has thought about talking to Alamo, Aquatek, or other decent LFS in regards to hosting a MAAST meeting? It's great to have guys like Tim and Ray supporting this group, but it would be nice to get the stores aware of us and our purpose. As it is, we are just a social group that stores aren't aware of or care about. I think if they knew more about us, that we are slowly growing in numbers and we are customers deeply concerned about the quality of livestock we purchase, perhaps they would change some of the ways they operate. After all, I think that 50 or so (currently) marine enthusiasts can make an economic impact on a store.
It would not hurt a store owner to bring us in and show us their operation. Maybe they or someone from our group can talk to everyone about the different livestock/corals/drygoods there at the store. Something like that would be good for people newer to the hobby. Maybe allow a chance to talk to the owners/employees about problems we see. The only thing is if we met on a Sunday, that's usually when they are at their lowest in livestock, but maybe they could order extra in if scheduled ahead of time.

Just some thoughts, hopefully others will give some input :D

Chris

[Chris]

First, neither Tim nor Ray are directly supporting this group other than being another valued member who happen to also sell livestock and provide us all with some good deals. (And I’m glad they're here!)

Second, I'm pretty positive the local stores (at least our larger ones) do know about us, but perhaps may underestimate our full potential as a group.

Sadly, I’d be the first to admit we don't have a great selection of retail outlets to choose from, but by bashing them it doesn't help their outlook towards us and the willingness to support us will not arrive. I honestly think we should downplay the blatant bashing and focus more on improvement like you said.

Unfortunately our voices won't be heard until we as a group start making that effort. We're still pretty small in my eyes and the only way we'll increase our numbers is by communication. Through casual conversation with other visitors to the stores you could possibly mention us as a great place to research new purchases; or the next time you get a chance to talk to an employee or owner, try to pop in something about our site. They won't know we're around if they don't get a feel for how many of us are actually going to their stores.

If we don't make our presence known to them, they'll consider us as just a group who choose not to spend a dime at their stores... why would they bother to change anything for someone who isn't even a customer?

The rest will fall in play as we continue to grow and as long as members find the time to participate.

;)

[captexas]

I agree, bashing stores achieves nothing positive. Owners will simply learn to hate us and not care what we have to say. I think getting the word out about MAAST is important to get new members and help it gain strength. You mentioned briefly talking to people we run into at LFSs and that gave me an idea. I know you have talked about placing flyers at stores and I just thought about maybe printing up some business cards that advertise the website. Current members could carry a few and hand them out if they come across people at stores with questions. I don't mean necessarily pushing it on people, but if you were to overhear a shopper ask a question or something, it would be a good opportunity. Hell, I would put them on peoples cars if I was at an LFS! :-D

Just another crazy idea !

Chris

[Chris]

It's a good idea Chris, and I've thought about it too. It's on my mind but I'd rather get the website finished first before spending time on it.

If anyone else wanted to take up the project go at it. Otherwise it's on my "things to do later" list.

8)

[Chris]

Also, I think a tiny membership fee or some other way of raising funds is inevitable.

Inevitable, but probably won't happen soon til we get more organized with our meetings, file for non-profit status, elect officers... all on the "things to do" list... :P


lol... for the life of me I couldn't figure out why you were talking to yourself...

:oops: :lol2: :hammer:

[TexasState]

and I just thought about maybe printing up some business cards that advertise the website.

Good ideas Chris. I had though about that too. Vistaprint.com have free color business card, all you have to do is pay for the shipping. I've been against store bashing since the beginning too. If you walk up to someone and start bashing them, whether true or false, they're not going to listen to you. We're going to have a hard time finding a sponsor if we bash them. Dues paying members of the Houston and Austin reef club get a 10% to 15% discount at some of the fish stores.

[TexasState]

file for non-profit status

You might want to ask other clubs's experience in that. There's positive and negative points to that.

[TexasState]

Sticking with facts, I keep my gossip private, one to one conversation. Unless someone ****ed me off very bad, I don't say anything bad in a public forum. That's my philosophy. You can do whatever you want.

The Houston reef club are private about their business too. From their online posting, I didn't know that most of the club hated this one fish store owner, until someone told me privately. Out of the whole club, about two person fill me in privately. That owner end up having to sell off the fish store.

[captexas]

LOL, I agree, Vihn is a wise one! I have never bashed anyone or any store. I simply offer my experiences when I can (few as they may be!). I know that on Reef Central I have seen online companies bashed that I have used and had nothing but good experiences with. Because of this, I don't automatically shy away from someone with a bad report. Of course if all you hear or read is bad, then I jump on the bandwagon and burn em down! LOL - just kidding! :-o

This Chris agrees with the other Chris. I think a few more meetings and better organization is best. Don't want to get ahead of ourselves. The business card thing was just something I thought of and wanted to throw it out there for everyone. As far as club dues go, I don't think anyone will have a problem with that once things are organized and people know what the money is used for. I'd pay, as long as I get a t-shirt or hat or something! :-D

PS - wow, I actually started a thread that has gone 2 pages! :police:

[DeletedAccount]

I've been guilty of my share of bashing, too. Y'all are right that we need to stick to facts, but I think it is important to keep trying to inform the group when we do notice a problem in the stores, like the flatworms that I personally never would have noticed.

If we want to get on the "good side" of the stores we need to make an effort. Petland tried very hard to get us to go in and buy, keeping us informed of what they had, what they were doing to improve the salt tanks, giving us a discount. They also readily accepted and have taken some advise on things to change and do differently. They really tried to help us AND get our help. I think that 2 or 3 of us actually showed up and told them who we were. They were a little bummed and discouraged (or so it sounded when I talked to them) that the efforts they were making were being ignored by us. I know that the big picture was getting us to spend our wealths in the store, but they are the only store here in town that has made an effort (since ***) to try and change and improve. If they make an effort we should make an effort too.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Chris]

Misti do you remember who it was from our board that worked at Petland? It was gracious of them to offer discounts, but things with our group are just barely getting started and settled so of course it may yet still take some time.

It would be nice to have them on a future list of possible sponsors when we're ready for that.

I personally never visit their stores because it's so far away from where I live.

[Tim Marvin]

Good luck guys. I'll bet $100 you won't get any takers. We couldn't even get the stores to give 20% discount up here very easily. That is why I am in business. These clubs have lots of bargain hunters.

[savoy6]

I agree with post first hand experiences but no second cousin's brother in law stories. I think the LFS thing is a lost cause. What they are charging for the lame livestock they do have I dont know what they are on but they aint sharin.

[captexas]

I stop by Petland every so often and I did visit them when they were posting on the old yahoo site. I think the guys name was Jimy. I haven't seen him there in quite awhile. He was very responsive and was hoping that if business started to pick up, he could justify to the owner to spend more money on lighting for a separate coral tank and increased orders. Unfortunately, I don't think their fish sales amount to much as nothing has changed there. I have seen the same fish there over a few weeks at a time.

I think that since they sell plenty of dogs for $700 each, the owner won't spend money on the fish section for sales that don't amount to one dog over a months time.

It would have been nice to work with them even though they are a small setup. If Jimi was still there, I think he would work with us, but I'm not sure they still have anyone there full time.

[DeletedAccount]

I know that one of the two guys is still there. I don't live too far away so I go by every few weeks. I have mentioned our new site to the Fish guru at Petland, but he has not posted. I will write up the site name on one of those handy business cards tonight and drop it by next time either of the guys is around.

[Tim Marvin]

I firmly beleive you are wasting your time with the stores. The unfortunate truth is they need to make X amount to cover cost: ie: light, water, employees, business machines, leasing, and so on. I pay a monthly fee to accept your credit cards and don't have near the overhead. The online stores move in volume and also make some money on boxes, shipping, handling, and so on. You guys will do well by charging a yearly due to be club members or small monthly fee. Then have guys like Joshua, Ray, and others willing to hassle with ordering wholesale to provide for the club. This would be the benifit of joining. Now you will have to get commitment from the suppliers not to sell cheap to anyone else and not give the benefit of cheap livestock and supplies to non paying members. We could also get monthly commitments from people interested in propagating, but don't have the room or set-up. Sorta like a rental type set-up. One person can keep up the system and the group interested in propagating can help to fund it. Of course they would also reap the rewards from it, such as rare coral frags, and the devasting loses if one should occur. I have yet to lose a whole system, but I have heard of this happening. I believe being careful in what you place into the system is the key.

[OrionN]

Back to the main topic.
What does everybody think about having a meeting at my house some time? I have a very full tank and can alway give some free frags to people who brave the 2 hrs from San Antonio to come.
Minh Nguyen

[Reefdude]

Minh,
Whats is the LFS situation for you down there in Corpus?? Is it worth a drive from SA??

[TexasState]

I'd like to have a meeting during the summer time so I can check out the scenery on the beaches too. ;)

[captexas]

The wise one blesses us with his wisdom again! :-D

Summer would be great or even Spring Break too! Lots of "scenery" then! :confused: :twisted: Summer would probably work out better though as some people might want to tie a trip to the coast in with vacation time with the family or something.

A fishing trip would be cool too, get to catch the big fish that eat our little fish! :-D

[OrionN]

Meeting here in Corpus Christi in the summer would be great. I would love to host the meeting sometime this summer. I will try to go to the next month meeting but I cannot go to the meeting this month in SA.
LFS here in Corpus Christi is not very good. There is only one store. It is reasonable in term of the health of the fish and animal but I would not make the trip just to see it. When you are down here, a trip to the LFS is reasonable.
Minh Nguyen

[JimiHunt]

How are y'all? I haven't been on here in a long time, but I was just checking out some posts and came across this one. This is the Jimi who used to work at Petland, and the deals weren't going very well. As was said, no one came in and told us who they were. It was hard to keep offering deals to people who weren't interested :P. I'm down in Corpus now, working at the local TFS/Maintainance store Tropical Fish Haven. Good store. I won't be here long, because I'm going back to school full time, but if you're ever in the area and get a chance, check it out. The filtration on the systems here alone are enough to convince someone to buy here. Hell, it's what convinced me to even work here.

[MikeP]

The business card idea sounds good - the flyer I put up at Aquatek got kind of ratty and fell down but it brought a few members in. I know Roger seemed less than enthused dealing with another club due to the whole deal with ARK - we could ask though. Only problem is a weekend meeting at Aquatek would be a zoo as it's packed to begin with but if they can drag us in and get us to spend some cash it might work.

Austin Aquariums has space to host meetings, most of the other stores here locally are too small.

Minh - I would love to take a visit to Corpus and you hosting a meeting would be great.

[DeAngelove]

Austin Aquariums seems to be very helpful and informative everytime I've been in there (whether I bought anything or not); regardless of how busy they were as well.

I personally check out LFS ahead of time BEFORE spending my money. IMO, you can never research too much, regardless of where or how long you have been in the hobby, as it is both an art AND science.

Has anyone brought up this possibility to anyone at Austin Aquariums?

Regards,
~Denise

[MikeP]

AA hosted a meeting there last year featuring Red Sea products. They have added a few vendors, maybe they could get Fritz or someone to give a talk.

[::pete::]

I also agree with not bashing stores simply because the employees might want to make it better, but it ends up coming down to the boss. I have seen at the few meetings I did attend employees from the lfs also there. They might have come for the frags or whatever, but they will return and talk to fellow employees. They might not tell the boss, but the other one might. "Loose lips sink ships." Anyway one good worker cant do it all and it doesnt work much different than Maast. Its going to take a fair amount of people to change something.

The business cards are an excellent idea. Any lfs could set them on the counter (as long as they are not getting bashed) because it doesnt take away business it will actually grow their business if it is done right.

My thought on creating revenue for Maast is as follows: Anyone can apply for a resale license and get corals and fish at wholesale, preferably captive bred and raised. These prices are considerably cheaper than you see in the lfs (ex. an acro colony 20. to 30. @ lfs its 60. to 80.). Now there are some good size tanks with great setups among us that could easily house these corals. There are even prop tanks set up all over with in Maast. These coral colonies could then be fragged and sold off the Maast site along with fish if y'all so wished. It doesnt have to stop there because there is also a need for skimmers (Matt), sumps (Dan) and the rest of what reefers need. Its my experience jumping around the boards that the more ethical reefers would prefer buying from a hobbiest looking out for the reefs as opposed to someone wanting to cash in. Lets not forget that frags are selling on the internet for top dollar, but as Maast being ethical and looking out for the hobbiest it would be best to keep the frags @ 20.00 ea. including the rare ones. Once a good stock is established its like fragging Jims tank, it all grows back and doesnt cost except for the upkeep and care. However the tanks are already running anyway and there would be no over head for employees, etc. Now at the end of the year when "tax" time comes around electricity, bulbs, food etc. are all expenses needed to keep the "business" running including a percent of a dwelling "used for business" that can be deducted. With an experienced accountant I would bet Maast does pretty well.

This idea is not a new one, it is already being done just not through a club on the boards (as far as I know).

.... and thats my .02 sense :-D

[::pete::]

Thanks Josh ... I never even looked. :D That would explain why I never saw it. However it still stands. :-D and Maast could sustain itself.

[GaryP]

I think we have some opportunities to do some fund raising without becoming major competitors to the LSF's. I think that would be counter-productive. I think its in MAAST's best interests to develop a good working relationship with the LSF's. I know that has been the policy.

Gary

[StephenA]

AquaTek is who told me about this club and recommended I check it out. I think yearly dues is the best way to go. I paid to join because the advise and people were great. I never joined to become part of a buying group.

I have offered up my house for an October meeting.

[::pete::]

First I probably wouldnt have posted had I seen the date. I was wondering why Vinh was in Corpus :-D .

IM not saying a buying selling club all Im saying is if Maast wanted to generate revenue why not do it through "us" as Maast. I dont want to put out names and all, but its already being done. Add your name, tank and frags to the exotic page and make money.

What Im saying is there is not a frag out there that is worth more than say 15.00 - 20.00 if you are a true hobbiest and care about the reefs!!

Purchasing corals fragging and then setting up in tanks not propagation warehouses and only to benefit the hobbiest along with making Maast a few bucks. Trust me it wouldnt be that much as Maast wouldnt charge 1000. for a blue sps frag.

We have a member that would ... hell did give his tank away always to benefit the club. If we all pitched in not looking for something in return except to save the reefs it benefits everyone including the people purchasing the frags from "tanks".

Its just my opinion and there are many. :D

[obtusewit]

The local LFS have a lot of issues with the general public, especially the salty ones. I had a long term relationship with an owner in Houston. He had a BS in Marine Biology from A & M and was fortunate enough to have the funding to open a store right out of school. I helped him set up his store, from plumbing the display systems to laying the carpet to writing his poin of sale software. First calss all the way. He kept his tanks stocked with the best specimens and maintained his systems at 100%. He listened to the 10% of his customers that KNEW what they were doing and then he sold out after 3 years and said "to hell with it".

WHY???

Because he couldn't find employees that knew anything, or that didn't steal him blind. While it was ture that 10% of his customers were 'happy", the other 90% of his customers complained that everything cost too much, died the next day, crashed their tank, blah blah blah. His profit margin was zip, goodwill evaporated faster than make up water, and he got tired of working 7 days a week. And the 'happy" 10% of his customers that knew what they were doing also knew how to frag, trade, and keep it all from dying. These happy few also bought their calcium at Home Depot, their Metal halides from GE supply, their timers from W.W. Grainger, and they built better sumps, better skimmers, and knew where to buy a pump for half of what Itchynookie wanted. Why honor their requests when they weren't buying squat? The Pet-slams and Critters R' Us of the corporate world could care less about a quality marine section, just move the stock! Keeping the tanks pristine costs $$$ and profit. Keeping the tanks at 1.024 costs salt and 'might' promote disease in their tanks. Plumbing them seperately costs a lot more in parts, pieces and labor.... SOOOOOOOOOO

the bottom line is " Sure you can meet here, whats in it for me?"

Sad but true...

[obtusewit]

I think its great the Aquatic Warehouse is hosting the show this month. It is precisely this kind of operation that supports the serious reefers of the world. Folks that know what they are doing and are serious about the marine aquarist. They certainly have my support....

[StephenA]

I value my LFS more than anything. I feel that we are lucky in Austin to several that try. I am also greatful that Aquatic Warehouse is hosting our meeting. You can bet I'll buy something from them. It just kills me to see people spend weeks searching for deals when the LFS has it for a couple of bucks more. There could be a day when you need something on a Sat or Sun, The online guys can't help. Who was at my house at 11pm with a loaner tank when mine busted? It was the LFS. Who loaned me all kinds of equipment, the LFS. If I do find a big price difference online I'll tell them and most the time they will try to meet the price. I also know that they have higher overhead than the online guys, so I'll pay a higher price. My business when thru the online craze years ago. It drove most of the local dealers out of business, guess what happened. People found out the without local service and help life was hard. Now the online guys are going out of business and the local dealer is making a come back.

Something to think about!

[DeletedAccount]

We have had a meeting at Austin Aquariums, and this fall they will be hosting another one - and teaching us about dipping of animals. Aquatic Warehouse has been very supportive of our organization and is hosting this months meeting, and CB Pets has been a great friend and asset to our organization. Please remember, as Josh noted, this was started 1 1/2 years ago. We were just starting and trying to find out our place. The fish stores and the organization have changed a lot since the beginning.